The Wayward Home Podcast
The Wayward Home Podcast
43: Living The Van Life: An Inside Look with Author & Activist Noami Grevemberg
Ever dreamed of living life on the road, with the world as your backyard? Well, our guest Noami Grevemberg has not just dreamt it, but she's been living it every day since 2016! From adjusting to a Volkswagen Vanagon from a full-sized apartment, to the surprises that come with van life, Noami's stories are both inspiring and informative. She generously shares practical tips for those who might be considering this adventurous lifestyle and shares her love for her tiny home on wheels that's now an important part of her journey.
But, Noami's story doesn't stop at her personal adventures. She's on a mission to make the van life community more inclusive, welcoming, and diverse. Noami shines a light on the challenges she faced as an interracial couple traveling the country, and how the lack of representation of marginalized communities led her to establish Diversify Van Life. This initiative and her book, Living That Van Life, are key efforts in promoting diversity and representation within this lifestyle choice. So, join us for this enlightening conversation with Noami - it's bound to make you rethink and appreciate the life of those who call the open road their home.
Follow Noami Grevemberg:
Living the Vanlife book
Diversify Vanlife
@irietoaurora
@diversify.vanlife
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
Are you curious what Van Life is really like Without relying on those edited, perfect Instagram pictures? well, you're really going to love this brand new book called Living the Van Life by Naomi Grevenberg. I read this book a few months ago and it's a wonderful, first-hand, no-holds-barred, very honest review of Van Life, with Naomi's stories and struggles plus beautiful images of her life on the road. She also gives tips on how you can live in a van too. My interview with Naomi is coming up. Next, Let's go.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Wayward Home Podcast all about Van Life, boat life and nomadic living. We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the road and on the water. Now here's your host, Kristen Haynes. Hey there, I'm Kristen Haynes with TheWaywardHomecom, and I spent half the year in my camper van and half on my sailboat, So today I'm super excited to have Naomi Grevenberg on with me. Naomi has been living in a Volkswagen Van again since 2016 and is also the founder of Diversify Van Life. Thanks so much for coming onto The Wayward Home Podcast, Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to chat.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, you've been living in the van since 2016, which is a long time and kind of before this whole trend of that hashtag Van Life thing. So for you what you know, how did you get this idea? How did you get started with Van Life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, i mean, back in college, i always had this idea in my head of like, traveling the country in a van, road tripping with my friends and visiting all the national parks. And after college, you know, that dream kind of got buried in the noise of like, okay, i need to pursue a career and you know, to figure out this roadmap that I'm on, and you know, and back in 2016, i decided you know what I wanted to kind of reevaluate my life trajectory, because I was kind of moving down a path that didn't really feel very authentic to where I wanted to be and who I wanted to be. So digging up that old dream kind of felt like a good idea. Like you know, i wanted to be closer to nature. I wanted to like just travel, get out of my comfort zone, and that's how I ended up doing it.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. And was it hard at first to jump into a lifestyle like this when, like you didn't see much of it online or in the media, it was kind of like not a known thing. What was that like?
Speaker 2:It was really scary. To be honest with you, i don't think I thought too hard about it, because I'm a headfirst in kind of person. When I have this idea I kind of usually just run with them, but it was. It was pretty scary. I mean, hashtag van life was still in its infancy And, honestly, like when I decided to dig up this old dream, i didn't even really know hashtag van life was a thing. It was in the process of looking for my van, i realized that okay, there's this hashtag called van life. I guess this is a thing that people do. I mean, i was living in New Orleans at the time. We did not see anything like this down there And I didn't know anyone who had ever done what I was about to do. So, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It was really scary. It was a lot of experimenting, a lot of trial and error, like figuring out the van because there were no like van bill companies, there were no rental companies. So you know, there was really nothing online for camper vans except the Volkswagen bus, right? So, yeah, so it was. It was really a pivotal moment in my life where, you know, i had to make a choice Hey, are you going to do this, or are you not? And I just ran with it.
Speaker 1:And you've been in the Volkswagen for years, and what do you love about the Volkswagen? and you haven't changed vans at all either, which is interesting, because I just wanted to talk to you about your relationship with your van, oh gosh this, this old tin can.
Speaker 2:I have recreated myself over and over in it? And I absolutely love the Volkswagen Vanagon. I mean, the first time I saw it online, when I was looking for my rig, i fell in love. It was the bus that I saw first and I just love the bright colors. I love the tiny kitchen And I explored a couple of them before I finally found the one which is the one that I'm in my Vanagon. But for me, the buses were a little too small. The Volkswagen Vanagon was just perfect.
Speaker 2:I just absolutely love how the space is utilized. I mean, there's literally no wasted space in this rig And of course, we figured out a lot of ways to fill it, even though we say that we're minimalist. But you know, it's about what you value And, of course, there are two humans and a dog living in here. But I really, really love this fan And yeah, i don't know, she's a part of my family, right? You know, this fan is a character in my story, a part of my family, and I am going to keep it alive as long as I can.
Speaker 1:Ray. so in the beginning, what were some of the major you know challenges and frustrations you faced living in the van, because it is a big shift going from apartment or a house to a van Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, we left a big apartment with a whole lot of stuff And I think the first step was really downsizing. Downsizing and kind of figuring out what to bring was really tricky because, again, i didn't really know anyone that was living this way And, yeah, there was like the minimalist movements and all of that, but it was still so different because it's like I'm moving into a mobile van to travel And, of course, thinking about all the outdoor activities that I wanted to participate in, all the meals that I'm going to cook, like how many plates and cups do I need? how many pieces of clothing I had so many pieces of clothing in this rig. It was really unnecessary And only to realize that I was wearing the same thing over and over again because we were living outdoors.
Speaker 2:You know, i'm dirty all the time. Who has time to change clothes? I'm not getting enough showers. You know That was another transition. It's like we don't have a shower, we don't have a toilet. So it was. Those were the challenging parts in the beginning. To be honest with you, it's just figuring out what to keep and what to get rid of.
Speaker 1:Totally. And did you guys have a particular plan for your route, or were you just flying by the city of your pants, or how did you figure out where you wanted to go?
Speaker 2:So we had a tentative plan. It was actually supposed to be a one-year road trip from New Orleans to Alaska, to city Aurora, and then head back to New Orleans and go back to work. But, granted, we both quit our jobs. But Dustin was able to parlay Hayes into a remote position, which we were really fortunate for that. But yeah, it was supposed to be a one-year road trip And six months in we realized, hey, i don't want to stop doing this, i want to continue living this way. We didn't really have a journey mapped out, we just wanted to visit the national parks. We wanted to explore the country, see America and be in nature. I wanted to hike and backpack and swim and canoe and all the things. So that was it. It was just being guided by my passions and the outdoors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you grew up in the Caribbean, right, and you were probably I'm guessing out of sight at quite a bit growing up, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a small fishing village on the island of Trinidad, in a rainforest. So I grew up in nature. I mean that's what we did. My people were fisher people, they hunt, we foraged. I mean we lived. We had a very, very simple life, simple upbringing. We were poor, so nature was everything to us. Nature provided, sustained us, brought us joy, recreation, everything. So coming to America and being cut off from that, living in cities, eventually took a toll on me And I guess that calling back to nature is what led me to want to pursue this lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Totally. I've totally relate to that being in cities and how you feel so cut off And just you're not within it, you're not feeling the rain or hearing anything, or it's just. It always jars me, still to this day, to be in a city And I feel like probably people aren't even aware of this that live in cities that they're missing nature so much.
Speaker 2:So true, i mean, it's only until I decided to live in a van and spent our first six months. we were pretty much out in cities. We didn't really spend, i mean, out in nature. We didn't really spend a lot of time in cities. And the first time I went to a city it was San Francisco. a friend invited us to come visit And I got a panic attack by all the noise and the lights and the sounds, and it was just so much.
Speaker 2:I was standing in the middle of the street like having this panic attack and Dustin said, oh my gosh, we're not too far from the hotel, just hang on. And I pretty much hid in the hotel the entire weekend and did not want to leave because I was so overwhelmed by the city and coming out of nature, being in nature, and I was like, oh, i'm so excited. You know, at times, you know we have taken breaks from the road and we usually go back to New Orleans for that, and even back in New Orleans which I think you know, new Orleans still have this kind of really down home vibe about it. that kind of reminds me of the Caribbean in a lot of ways. You know all the sounds, the sounds of the air conditioning buzzing, the cars on the street, the lights outside, like it's really. it's interesting. I get a bit disoriented in cities now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is shocking And you mentioned San Francisco, which is where we usually go back to, sometimes for Tom's work, and I just find it like, ah, i mean, nature like this is wild. So it's funny how you just get so used to a different environment. When you live like in a van or on a sailboat, it's you are very in touch with your surroundings And I think it's a calming presence inside of our body and good for our mental health.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, cool And yeah. so back when we were talking before how Dustin got a remote job or made his position remote, how did you end up starting to create an income from the road?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, a lot of trial and error Because, you know, i mean again going back to it it was, you know, back in 2016,. Remote work was still also in its infancy. There were, you know, a few websites that where you can go on if you have certain skills, but I didn't have the skills to pursue any of those opportunities. So it was a lot of trial and error. But, again, like I, i started thinking really deeply about what I wanted for myself, what brings me joy, and that was pursuing passions.
Speaker 2:Like I had a passion for photography, love writing, so I kind of, you know, went back to that, like, okay, i want to write, i want to, you know, write again, i want to learn photography. So I started just kind of honing some of those skills And it took a long time before I could make any money from, you know, adapting these passions. But eventually I did and I have, and since then I've been able to like, really create, you know, financial independence for myself on the road through, you know, remote entrepreneurship, and that's been such a blessing. But, yeah, it took a lot of experimenting with the things that I love And also like trying not to default back into the way, the mentality that I was trying to unlearn for myself.
Speaker 1:Right. It's such a blessing to be able to create a business around things you love. Huh, it's really makes your life more sustainable how you're currently living than how you're living in New Orleans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think for me, what really kept me motivated and inspired was this idea of blurring the line between work and play, and I kept going back to that every time I felt okay, well, you know, i don't know if this is working out for me, but you know, let me, let me just pivot a little bit And also like giving myself a lot of grace. You know, i mean, i was recreating my entire life. I burnt it all down and decided, hey, to rebuild this my way. And you know, that's that's in the end, that's my, my version of the American dream.
Speaker 1:Totally, it's a great version. It's mine too, and, i think, a lot of inspiring nomads as well to craft our own life. So it's definitely amazing. So, part of your way into your journey, you started to do the diversify van life. When did you start that and what prompted you to start that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in 2019, i did this van life gathering circuit that summer. This was when, you know, i felt like the van life community was really solidifying, the van life was really solidifying community and what that meant for us as a, you know, unconventional movement and unconventional way of life. You know where we are on the road and you know community is hard to find Well, how do we build this Right? And you know, the van life gathering circuit was just so exciting for me and for so many people just coming together, all these fans and all these you know, really unique individuals with all these stories building and solidifying deep connections to help sustain us on the road, and that was just such a beautiful concept to me And I was really excited to participate and to be a part of that that you know, profound change that we're making in the world. But the one thing that really stuck out for me and was really difficult for me to digest and also caused me a lot of like isolation in the end, was that I didn't really see a lot of people like me, a lot of BIPOC. You know there wasn't a lot of representation of, like often excluded groups of people, like even the queer community. There wasn't really a big, you know, representation of the queer community. So I, you know, I just felt detached from the community by the end of the van life circuit And I brought it up a few times to leaders of the community who were like putting together these events, but it just fell on deaf ears And at the end of it, you know, i just felt anxious, i felt alienated, i felt angry and, you know, decided to speak up about it.
Speaker 2:And when I did, you know, i got a lot. I got a lot of support, but I also got a lot of pushback from a lot of people who refused to really understand what it means to build an inclusive community and, you know, to understand, to see a different perspective, you know, and that also, you know, just pushed me over the edge, thank you, to do something about it. Like, if the community isn't going to come together and really have a conversation about this topic, then I'm going to do something about it, like I'm going to advocate for myself, i'm going to make the change that I want to see, and that's what I did. I created Diversify Van Life as a way to bring the often excluded groups of nomads and people together in a safe space where we can shift the narrative, where we can own our own stories and share our stories and build community.
Speaker 2:Because representation is important To be a best self out here, you have to see your best self out here. So that was really important to me because it came down to a point where I wasn't sure that this was the lifestyle for me, because I didn't see people like me represented. None of the stories that were being told in the mainstream of Van Life media resonated with me. So, yeah, that's how I started Diversify Van Life And it was really, I guess, confirming for me when I saw the community mobilize around the idea of Diversify Van Life And it kicked open a door that really lent itself to a powerful movement in its own right. To see other BIPOC nomads and organizations like Van Life Pride communities, like the Van Life Pride community, come out of the woodworks was really beautiful to witness And I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 1:Do you think that in the following years you've started to see more representation of other communities within Van Life? I'm hoping it's growing. Have you noticed that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely. I think there's outdoorsy black women, There is again the Van Life Pride community and other small communities as well, But it's definitely growing And I see so many marginalized groups of people just being represented and owning their own stories and stepping out and empowering themselves to speak their truth, Because for me, those are some of the most important stories. Those are the stories that I want to hear about, the ones that are often excluded from the mainstream narrative. So it's been really beautiful to see more diversity in the community, but not just diversity, also inclusion. There are people being welcomed and getting a seat at the table and being allowed to create and build a life without being excluded from the narrative.
Speaker 1:Totally, and did you and Dustin as an interracial couple? did you guys ever feel nervous about traveling or have bad experiences on the road?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, totally. We've had bad experiences with the road, especially with the police and having breakdowns, but I think for me the safety issue was always a part of the subject for us. But again, dustin, i am not going to lie Like I feel lucky being able to have his white male privilege to lean into at times, especially when it comes to interacting with the cops or interacting with people when we have breakdowns and such. But people are so wonderful on the road. I haven't had a lot of bad experiences with actual people on the road, but I have had some experiences with dealing with the police on the road, which is really scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, scary and awful, and things that people don't even think about. That are white. People don't even conceptualize what that's like, so I think it's important for them to put them in someone else's shoes and think about what that's like and how they can help in this situation. So, yeah, so I'm glad that you've been talking about it and bringing it to the forefront like this. I think that's important. So, yeah, and you've found, yeah, when people see themselves represented, maybe they're more likely to try it and to jump in and live van life right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and that's the point. I think we all deserve to explore whatever lifestyles we feel called to, and I know in the beginning, pre-diversified van life. People would reach out to me all the time on social media asking questions People, bipoc, black women, solo women who want to pursue solo travel But there weren't a lot of representation off it And there was a lot of fear associated with it. So I think it's important for us to break those barriers by sharing our stories, by creating space for individuals who don't have the resources or the privilege or the means to share their stories as well, like utilizing our social capital and speaking up against the lack of representation and creating some room. I mean there's space for all of us And I think once we do that, we're really challenging the status quo in that way. That's what we're out here doing. We're all challenging the norms, right Unlearning. So that's a really important part to play in that as we pursue this alternative lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so true, and yeah, and I love that you have. you know your book coming out this summer, which I read and it's really exciting living that van life you know is what it's called. But I'm wondering the backstory of this book, like how did you decide to write this? When did you decide to write this?
Speaker 2:Well, it's an interesting story because I always thought someday I would write a book. I just never thought it would happen. The way that it did This is during the pandemic. It was 2020.
Speaker 2:I got an email from an editor at Simon and Schuster with this idea to write a book And I actually thought it was a scam or something. So, but I said, you know what I'll, i'll, i'll buy it. I sent, i responded to the email and I said, okay, yeah, i'll get on a call, got on a call And the editor, you know, mentioned that she had an idea for this book that she wanted me to write. And you know, i had a lot of imposter syndrome. I'm like me, like, why me? like, why do you want me to write a book? This is so interesting.
Speaker 2:So I thought about it for a while, like maybe a week or so. Like, do I want to do this? Like, do I have the capacity to do this? This is, like you know, am I a writer? Like you know, again imposter syndrome. And then I decided, you know what, why not? I can do this. So that's pretty much how it happened. In a nutshell, you know like this editor reached out with this idea to write the book And I took that idea and I ran with it. I mean, this book is way, way, way bigger and, you know, more extensive than the original concept, but I think you know that that's what we wanted. You know, there it's a part my more apart practical travel guide, written through the lens of the intersections that I navigate as a black, identifying queer woman on the road and an immigrant. So I'm really proud of it, i'm really excited about it, and to get it into people's hands, yeah, Yeah, was it?
Speaker 1:was it challenging to write Like how, what was that process like for you?
Speaker 2:I mean, i've never written a book before. So you know, just learning, learning what works for me as a writer in that way was kind of a learning curve, but I figured it out. But I think the most difficult part was like living on the road during a pandemic and writing a book at the same time. So it was a challenge for sure, but you know, it really was such a healing experience for me during that time, just processing my life on the road, just processing my life pre van life as well, and the journey that got me here. And there's so many incredible stories that I share with individuals, with people, in the book, and also like just a ton of like learnings from my experience living in a van on the road. So it's just jam packed with just so much, so much love and value And I really think that every, every person is going to find something to resonate with and find value in it. Yeah, regardless of where you come from, your walks of life, anything you know, there's just something in there for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was there anything scary about writing it? Was there anything you were like hesitant to put out there that you had to overcome? Or do you feel like you're generally open book, so to speak?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean there's a lot, you know, just being vulnerable, just being vulnerable with what I was sharing. I mean I wanted to be as authentic as I could, you know, with with my story And just keeping it real. You know, yeah, there's a lot of vulnerability, a lot of juicy stuff in there. I think, for the most part, just coming out in my book as a queer BIPOC woman was scary at first, but it felt right, it felt like something that I was ready to do And it felt important to me as well to show up in my truth. I mean, this book is my book, i wrote it, it's my story and I get to define that No one else does.
Speaker 2:And I've spent so many years on the road, in my identity crisis and in my healing journey and trying to figure out who the heck I am in this road, travel life in this life in general And that was a big part of it And just accepting myself as a whole person, regardless of my race, sexual identity, all of it. And coming out in my book initially felt really scary, but I have no regrets. I'm really really proud of that step And it's kind of like at a point right now where I don't really care what anyone thinks. I am a whole person and I'm deserving?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Totally. That's an amazing point to come through and it is a cathartic experience to write a book like that, which is very vulnerable. And yeah, I'm wondering if you have any favorite parts of the book that you can tease people with. What are some of your favorite little things people should look forward to in there?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, i think one of my favorites is where I talk about cohabiting in a van. It's funny, it's vulnerable, i mean. I think people are going to laugh, they're going to cry, they're going to like yeah, i think, yeah, the stories are just fantastic. So I think that's my favorite part. Yeah, i included little anecdotes from community members as well, so it just lends such a beautiful layer because it's from really diverse voices of individuals cohabiting in their van. So I think, yeah, that's my favorite.
Speaker 1:I like that part too. I do like that you share vulnerable and realistic views of what van life is, because it's not all roses like people can see on Instagram and they're like, oh, i want to do that. And they're like, no, it's hard, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's the thing I really wanted to just keep it real with this book, because there are other van life books out there, but I also feel like it's just so romanticized. All the pictures are like you're in this beautiful landscape And, like you said, they're wildflowers and we're sunbathing and whatever. But I wanted to keep it real And, yes, that is a part of it. That is a part of my van life journey. There are those beautiful moments, but we don't talk as much as we should about the hard stuff, the stuff that really defines you on your journey, the stuff that you can't touch. You have to feel it and you have to like really. It's like this mental breakthrough and emotional breakthrough at times, like your sense of safety and sharing your rig with someone else. It's like that is a really it makes or breaks you. So I really wanted to keep it real And, yeah, and the photography shows in that as well, and the stories, so yeah, Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, It feels like van life kind of whittles you down to your true essence. you know, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It really does. It really does, And you're forced to do it. You know it's like you don't have a choice.
Speaker 1:And your partner's essence.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, yeah, you've got to take a look at it. It really, you know, it really forces you to like to give yourself grace as well, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. There's so many beautiful things about it. Of course, trials too, like you were saying, the lack of showers and bathrooms but you get used to it. Over time, it just becomes your lifestyle. That's what I've found, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally Yeah. I think that the bathroom and the showers and going to the bathroom is really not that big a deal compared to, like, all the other stuff that you experience living this lifestyle, especially with another person, and I've never experienced solo, solo row travel, so I'm sure, like you know, that's a whole other. You know perspective as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally Well, great. Is there anything else you wanted to say about your book or your lifestyle or anything we missed?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's so many exciting things happening with me right now. I really like a lot of beautiful changes that I'm experiencing. So you know like just people should follow along. go to Ivy Ivy, to Rourne Instagram and follow along. It's really like special to me and a labor of love And I really really feel like it's going to be really impactful for a lot of people. Yeah, and follow diversifyfanlife on Instagram as well. That's another place. we're going to be announcing a lot of different things and talking about the book and, yeah, just sharing all that.
Speaker 1:Great. Well, i'll totally add the links to all of that below in the show notes so people can find you and follow your journey. You're very fun to watch on Instagram with your beautiful photography, and so I think people will enjoy that and your book and everything you're up to. So, yeah, so thank you so much for coming on and talking about all this. It's great and, yeah, hope tons of people buy your book and, yeah, good luck.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Wayward Home Podcast, As always. I just love when you show up and download and listen to my podcast. It really makes my day. If you could do one thing to help me out, it would be much appreciated. If you listen over on Apple Podcasts, just go over and leave me a review. That really helps bring credibility to my podcast and also helps others find it who want to listen to this type of podcast. So thanks again and I'll see you next time.