55: Living Vanlife as a Professional Photographer: Behind the Scenes with Quin Schrock

What if you could ditch your 9-5 job, turn your passion into your career, and live life on the road? If you've ever wondered how to break into the world of photography to support your nomadic lifestlye, our guest, Quin Schrok,  has  you covered.

Listen to Quin's inspiring story from when he left his job as a corporate accountant to  travel across  North America in his 1999 Toyota Corolla while learning the craft, to becoming a sought-after professional photographer and vanlifer, capturing uniquely beautiful landscapes all over the world.

But it's not just about doing it for the 'gram - Quin sheds light on the business side of photography. We'll discuss the importance of developing a unique voice and style that sets you apart from the crowd. Quin shares his insights into the right equipment and post-production processes necessary for professional photography. Learn about various income streams in photography and how to connect with potential clients.. Whether you're an aspiring photographer or just curious about vanlife, this episode is an exciting journey you won't want to miss out on.

Follow Quin:
https://www.instagram.com/everchanginghorizon/?hl=en
http://www.everchanginghorizon.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Vanlife and photography seem to go hand in hand. I mean, you'll want to take all the photos of the beautiful places you visit, but what if you could turn your hobby into a money-making career? Well, that's exactly what Vanlifer Quinn Schrock did, and in this episode of the Wayward Home Podcast, we're talking all about how to become a professional photographer to fund your vanlife dreams. Let's go. Welcome to the Wayward Home Podcast. All about vanlife, boatlife and nomadic living. We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the road and on the water.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Now here's your host, kristen Haynes. Hey there, I'm Kristen Haynes with TheWaywardHomecom, and I spend half the year in my camper van and half on my sailboat in Mexico. I hope to inspire you to live nomadically too. Well, turning your passion for photography into a career while living and traveling in a van is a great way to make money on the road, and that's exactly what Vanlifer Quinn Schrock does for a living. This episode first appeared as a session for the Vanlife Virtual Summit, which I hosted for Project Vanlife. Let's get into it. Quinn Schrock is an adventure photographer who's been featured in publications like National Geographic, outdoor Magazine, sunset Magazine and more. So, quinn, thanks so much for joining us in the Vanlife Virtual Summit. We're so excited you're here.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Happy to be here, happy to become a part of the Vanlife, the Project, vanlife community. I've been following you guys for so long so, yeah, it's good to get involved.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Very cool. So first of all, let's just talk a little bit about your. You know vanlife part of your lifestyle and just what your lifestyle looks like in general as a professional photographer, because I think you're living the dream that a lot of people aspire for. So first let's jump into that.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Yeah, so with my career, I'm traveling probably half the time, as in traveling away from my vehicles. So originally it was just the idea that I don't like paying for rent that I'm not using for like half the time. So it was just kind of a logical like way to save money. And then when I was home, I was traveling to I don't know Yosemite or just different national parks, and you know I didn't want to be tied down to just one location. So vanlife for me was very practical and it fit my career as a photographer.

Speaker 2: 2:15

That being said, in the beginning I didn't have enough money to get a van. So, you know, I started doing photography or traveling full time around 2014. And all I could afford then was a Corolla. I had like a 2000 Corolla or 1999 Toyota Corolla, and so I would just see vans alongside the road and I pretty much instantly knew that that was like the end goal, not so much like oh man, I'm going to go out and buy one right now, but oh, I'm going to save up, hopefully in a year or two, or it actually took longer than that For me that I would be able to afford a Sprinter van or something like that. But yeah. So I mean I can go in depth, I can. I'm kind of given the overview right now, but is there a section?

Speaker 2: 3:07

that you want me to go in depth on there?

Speaker 1: 3:10

Yeah, no, that's great that you. I think it's important that people know that you started in a Corolla, because I started in a Prius and I'm in a Sprinter now. But it takes time to like move up, and that's okay. And I think people sometimes think like, oh, I have to like spend a ton of money on a Sprinter immediately, which is not true Like you and I started in cars, so I just think that's really cool for people to know that.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Yeah, both Toyota's.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Yeah, both Toyota's, yeah, and so I'd love to hear about, like now, what you're doing. It sounds like you split your time between the van and international travel, so tell us just a little bit about, like, what your lifestyle looks like.

Speaker 2: 3:44

Yeah. So, like I just got back from six weeks in Norway, I had three different jobs there and I guess two of them were photography jobs like freelance photography, not social media related, and then one of them was for a client that I work with called Insta360, just did a sponsored post for them. So about half of my jobs you see online on social media and the other half probably you would see on social media but not on my personal page, and this time of year when I got started in photography, I kind of saw it as random, like oh man, I won't get a job for like two months and then I'll have like 10 jobs in one month and over time, because I've been doing this full time since 2015,. So what is that? Eight years Over time, I've been able to see that there's somewhat of a trend.

Speaker 2: 4:46

Each year I have downtime, like from January to May, and then May it starts picking up and summer is my busy time.

Speaker 2: 4:55

Fall is my even busier time. So summer and fall is like it's kind of like unlike the opposite of a tax accountant, you know, like my slow time is when taxes are happening and then, like summer to fall, I'm pretty much super busy. So I was able to schedule this call with you guys in between different trips that I'm doing, but and that how it relates to van life is during my slow time, I'm pretty much full time in my van and I actually like like I'm in a sprinter too. I like being in the van when it's cold because it's easy to heat but it's a little bit harder to cool. Like right now I'm just in my parents house because I needed a place that wasn't. I wasn't gonna be sweating to death in my van making this video. So I like doing van life in the winter in general, and then summer usually I'm abroad, doing things like in Norway or wherever, yeah, or backpacking up in the mountains in Pacific Northwest or the Sierras or something like that.

Speaker 1: 6:03

That sounds amazing. That's that you are right about the heat being difficult to manage. We were up near Seattle just to escape some of the heat waves in Oregon, so I get it.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah, I'm gonna head up that way soon, but now I'm in Southern California. I just haven't made the migration yet.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Totally yeah. So let's talk about how you got into photography in the first place. What inspired you to take this on?

Speaker 2: 6:30

It wasn't really like a conscious choice. It was just more so like the craze of smartphones. I had a smartphone and Instagram started started becoming popular, so I had like an iPhone for something like that. That was probably my first camera and I went to school in Hawaii, so it was a combination of having a phone that had decent capabilities as a camera and being in a beautiful place. So you know, I was set up for success in that way, because everything looks good in Hawaii, like it's it's. That's basically what made me stand out as a photographer, being in a beautiful place.

Speaker 2: 7:15

Like I can't really take much credit for the beginning stages and for that reason I think a lot of people want to see Hawaii Like.

Speaker 2: 7:24

A lot of people like the idea of like I'm on this Instagram thing and apparently I can follow whoever I want. Like I don't even need to know these people, because back in the day, like with Facebook, it was weird to like Facebook, stalk somebody, like somebody that you didn't know, right. But Instagram kind of blew the doors open to like following, being like socially normal to follow someone that you didn't know, that you were just kind of somewhat interested in their life or their work or whatever. So people started to see Hawaii and they're like why wouldn't I want a little bit of Hawaii on my newsfeed? So they started following me. In that way, I attribute a lot of my following to getting started early and also being in Hawaii at that time. And then over time I started to get like better as a photographer. But in the beginning it's just kind of like documenting where I was living and using what I had, which was, yeah, like the iPhone 4 or something like that.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Cool and then. So you started out with the phone and then eventually I'm guessing you moved to a camera. But how did you figure that? What was your progression and how did you hone your skill to be where you are today, like to take classes, or what did you do?

Speaker 2: 8:41

So I hmm, a lot of the reason why I became a photographer was just my life situation at the time when I was in Hawaii, as I was mentioning, I was living in Hawaii, I was, I was married and an accountant. So I wasn't like I didn't have like creative ambitions at all. I was making decisions based off of financial, like stable financial future, about to buy a house in the suburbs and, you know, get a job at a big four accounting firm, whatever. And one day I just woke up and my wife at the time was gone, ghosted me. So I mean, that's a long story, I could go into that, but that's not what this is about. So what happened was that just opened up a massive whole of free time for me. Right, I had to like fill what originally was my accounting and just my married life. All of a sudden I had all this extra free time. And that's kind of when I started wasn't necessarily I started focusing on photography, but I started focusing on exploring, hiking. I got a good camping setup. I started camping places and doing things like that that were they were just interesting to me and it was kind of in my mind, it was the opposite of the married life that I had, where I had like full freedom, I could do whatever. I was just kind of like cut loose and because I had the cell phone, I started taking photos of these epic campsites on the top of mountains in Hawaii and people were pretty into that. So because of that, like because I started getting into like outdoor stuff, like that, I ended up taking a job at Anasazi. It's like wilderness therapy program. So I moved off of Hawaii to Arizona and the reason to to do this was to hone in my wilderness skills, my like survival skills. I just got really into like being self-reliant and being able to handle myself outdoors and things like that.

Speaker 2: 10:56

So when I moved out there to Anasazi I met a new friend her name was Kate and I started doing little road trips with her on her off time and I distinctly remember going because I was in Arizona. We did a road trip up to Utah, up to Arches National Park, and we were under double arched, really iconic place in Arches National Park and I was there with my cell phone looking up and trying to take photos and like, and she was over there with her Canon camera and I would scoff at her, thinking like my phone is just as good. Like why do you need a separate camera? Like I don't, I don't get it, like whatever. But I remember saying to her something like, oh man, I don't know what it is, I just can't capture it.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Like I was shooting up to the sky and it was exposing for the bright, so like it was hard to see the arches. It was like really dark and I didn't have the ability to change the settings or like hone in what I actually was seeing. Like I wanted to look like what my eyes were seeing, but it wouldn't capture it. And Kate's like, oh, I'm actually really liking these photos, check them out. And her photos looked exactly like what I wanted, right, and that was the first time that I realized, like how do you get that? She's like, oh, I shoot on manual. Like what is that you know? Like, so, like underneath these double arches, I was kind of getting like my first taste of true photography where, like you can, you can change each setting, and she's like I change like four settings for each shot, depending on what I want out of it, and like, okay, what are these things? And it sounded like at the time it was like man, I see the, the merit because the photo is good, but you have to, like in your mind, calculate, like math, almost like calculate what the right setting is, like I don't know. It just seemed pretty crazy and I was a little bit turned off because it was so much information right at the time.

Speaker 2: 12:55

But you know that that relationship, that friendship, continued through the summer when I was in Arizona and little by little I started understanding like what f-stop was and shutter speed and all the different things that come with professional photography, and you know it was such a good experience. I was having so much fun, like first and foremost, exploring and finding these new places, just like seeing them with my own eyes because they're so amazing. But then the cherry on top was to be able to capture it properly. I started borrowing her camera more often than using my phone and I just started to see the merit and being able to control specifically the output and how your photos look in the end. Because with the cell phone it's really nice because, like it does most of this stuff for you and like maybe 80% of the time it does a really good job. But it is kind of nice also to feel like you put a little bit more of yourself into the image by, like, choosing those specific settings, you know, based off of how you want it to end up.

Speaker 1: 14:01

You know yeah, yeah, that's really interesting because you know, some people are overwhelmed. I think myself included. I have. I do know how to change the manual settings, but it can be kind of difficult, so I often just pull on my phone instead of using my camera and I'm just wondering, like, what your advice is to quickly maybe learn those things and start applying it to photography as an experimentation, or what could someone do to start doing this?

Speaker 2: 14:28

I will say cell phones have gotten way better too. This is like. This is like nine years ago. Now it's 2014, so I still kind of I'm a pretty big advocate for using your phone, especially for like video, because video is so popular now. Phone doesn't or the at least the iPhone that I use. I'm sure a lot of the other Samsung's and stuff have great capabilities too, especially for videos like it has really good stabilization and kind of like I don't know. I think things look better in on a phone than like when I shoot video on my Sony camera. Like I don't really like it. It's kind of like jumpy, like I need to bust out a tripod. I don't even want to carry a tripod. So I am an advocate especially for phone videography. I think it's easily the best way to go for like 99% of things out there. But sorry, what was your question? How do you break into?

Speaker 1: 15:29

the yeah. Like, how do you start using these manual settings without getting really overwhelmed by all the different settings?

Speaker 2: 15:37

um, you know, for me, I had a crash course of like using it every day. We're talking like we would shoot sunset, or we would shoot sunrise, midday sunset every day, and and we eventually were so into those road trips, like on the off weeks, that me and Kate just took off for six months and we drove up to Canada all around the West Coast and into Mexico all the way down to Panama. So it turned into like I was so obsessed with that at the time I think it's just what I needed at the time that we ended up just camping next to the side of the car for six months straight and taking photos every day, and at the time it was like that's just like that's what felt right, and I was kind of just like a sponge eating up all this like new information on how to capture things and more so is just like really fun to like. At the time, I remember thinking like this is my window where I can, where I have enough free time to experience this and do this, like who knows, maybe I'll be married again next year, and like this is just like the window to take advantage of, like being young and free and like you know, I have a car that runs and it gets good gas mileage, I wasn't necessarily thinking like, oh, I wish I had a Sprinter van. It was just kind of like I have what I have, have a little bit of money, and let's see how far this money can last, you know. And so for me it was like it was a crash course in photography, because it was just my obsession at the time and I know a lot of other people that get into photography. It's more so like just the side hobby and it like kind of like is like slow and slow progress over time. But that's just wasn't my experience. It was just kind of like well, this is amazing, like this is the only thing I'm going to do until my money runs out and then I'm going to get another job, and that's kind of how it was.

Speaker 2: 17:45

For the first like three or four years of my photography was either like full time on the road, shooting as much as I can, or I would have to go back and get like a temporary summer job or something like that. I didn't go back to accounting because it just all of a sudden was just not where I wanted to be when I started, like road tripping and camping and stuff is like I didn't want like that stark contrast of like going back cutting my hair, combing my hair and like putting on like a shirt and tie and going into account. It would just feel too like stark and like depressing in my mind. So that's why I got like a job like you know, learning how to survive in the wilderness and stuff like that. It felt like it was at least something that like could pertain to my photography and elevate my photography to have those skills. But yeah, so for someone that's trying to get into it, I would just say the most important thing is to find a subject matter or something even outside of photography, like find the thing that you care about the most. You know, like something that you're obsessed with. Like some dudes I know are like really into baseball or something like that. Like maybe you could get a zoom lens and you can go to the games and shoot that, because it's something that you care about and you care enough about it that you want to do it justice. So you're going to, you're going to really put in the time and effort into creating the best images possible, and for me it was like it was like epic landscapes in the Western United States at the time, because I was born and raised in California and I didn't go to Yosemite until I was like 25, you know, like it was just kind of like wow, I 25, I finally found like my backyard and like this is crazy, why didn't I not, why did I not know of this?

Speaker 2: 19:41

When I was like 15 years old and I was, like you know, kind of hating on where I grew up because I didn't really see the beauty of it. And now I see, like I need to spread the word you know what I'm saying. So like it was kind of like this passion of mine. It's like I finally found something that I was really into so I need to share it with everyone else. So that kind of pushed me into like feeling the need to capture it as best as possible. And and it was also just this fun challenge, like I just became obsessed with like first off, finding cool new places, and then the next challenge was to like find the right angle to to help it translate to a single image.

Speaker 2: 20:23

At the time, in the very beginning, it was all photography.

Speaker 2: 20:26

I wasn't really doing much video, so for people starting out now it's, the landscapes changed a bit and video at this point is arguably more important than photo, but it's kind of the same general concept, like what video can you take that will inspire others to go out and see this for themselves?

Speaker 2: 20:47

You know how can you showcase it in the best light or show your personality, like if you're really that stoked, like show you interacting with it and how it makes you happier and it adds to you know, your daily happiness or whatever.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Yeah, that's that's kind of the approach that I would take is to try to find a subject matter that really gets you going and that that will really push you to try to capture it in the best way possible and that will make you. It's the same concept of like if you move to Mexico and nobody speaks English, you're going to have to figure out how to express yourself. You're going to have to learn how to speak Spanish. So, like if you put yourself in this situation where it's like almost like a dire need like man, I love this so much like I got to figure out how to communicate this with, with other people, that passion will translate, people will see it and they'll want to follow along. Or, if you're looking at from the client perspective, they'll want to maybe pay you to get a little bit of that passion on their end to help them with whatever they want selling a product or showcasing a location or whatever, whoever the client is, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Yeah, and do you think that it's easier for people, if they want to break into it to make money, to like work on their social media profile or work on actually finding paying clients? Like, what's route would you suggest to someone?

Speaker 2: 22:24

I focus on my craft and building my social profile. I think that's probably what most people do, simply because the few times that I've reached out to clients it's been such a different. It's been a different situation where, like, if I reach out, it's obvious that I need the money. I don't know how I put this. Basically it puts them in the negotiation chair. So they didn't necessarily reach out to me because they liked my content, my photos. So what happened was they said they agreed to me taking photos of their product like 10 unique images or so and we agreed to a price. And it turns out when I delivered those 10 unique images, they weren't necessarily what they were looking for. So that particular job that I'm referring to dragged on for like six months because in the end hindsight, looking back on it I reached out to them. They weren't interested in my photography. I had to bend over backwards to try to meet their needs. So I had to kind of bend my photography ability to create images that I wouldn't normally create right, and it turned out to be way more work than what they paid. It wasn't worth what they paid me, and so I think it does really work, specifically to the creator's benefit. If the client is genuinely interested in your work and what you've established yourself as being good at because then it will kind of run smoother they already like what you're doing it naturally integrates into your body of work. So with that, if you're trying to attract clients to reach out to you, it's easier said than done, so like I'm able to rely on that and do it that way because I have a large following. So the first step is to gain that following and that's the tricky one. I feel like that's what everyone wants to know. I think passion really translates for sure. So going back to finding something that you really care about, as opposed to just jumping on bandwagons and kind of recreating shots If you go to Yosemite and you go create the classic shots that have been posted multiple times, just trying to think about it from a client's perspective, why would they want to work with you if your body of work is pretty much the same as everyone else's? So, like every time you post on social media generally, you have to really be able to stand by that work as if it's your own voice, your own unique take, and it's giving clients a reason to work with you because you're the only one that's created that it's a tough business for sure. It's super competitive, as everyone knows.

Speaker 2: 25:58

And I will also note, if you're just starting out with photography, I just hated on recreating images. It's almost a necessary step in the beginning If there's someone that you really look up to and you hope to be like, maybe save a few of the images, go out and recreate those, just so you know how the process works, so that the veil is kind of pulled back and you see, okay, so he shot it at this time of day because it looks better at this time of day. And why is this photo so good? Oh, I guess like the road is leading into the view, right. So like it's like this leading line that draws the viewer in. So you're trying to like that recreation process kind of has to happen, but the quicker you do that, understand the overarching concepts of what makes the photo engaging and good, then you can take those concepts and apply them into new and unique ways, right? So it's kind of like this step-by-step process.

Speaker 2: 27:07

I don't know anyone who didn't start out like recreating in like somewhat derivative ways, like where they were just kind of like doing a shot-by-shot, like classic shots. That's what I did, and my inspiration in the beginning was Chris Burkard and I recreated a bunch of his shots and then from there, eventually, like a few years later, I was able to branch out and try some new things. And now I think I'm like nine years into my career. I kind of see it as like off limits If something has been done before. I try to avoid that, not always, but like I try to do something different and think of myself every time I post as like showcasing that this is my unique vision and for that reason I'm able to command a higher rate when I'm negotiating, when a client reaches out, because they believe and I believe that I have a unique voice, you know.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Yeah, it sounds like quite a process. Like someone's not going to be a professional photographer overnight. They need to work on it and really practice their craft for a while and hone their voice and style.

Speaker 2: 28:25

Yeah, one of the biggest things I think a lot of people stress about is they want to be that unique and creative voice like from their first post. You know, and in all realities it's just a process and I think in the beginning that recreation is a necessary step. It's just how quickly you can get through that step and onto the pushing the limits and doing more unique things. You know.

Speaker 1: 28:54

Yeah, yeah. And so if someone is kind of a more of a beginner and they want to choose a camera to play with and practice with, do you have any recommendations for that?

Speaker 2: 29:05

Definitely your phone. I mean, I just think the phone is always going to be. I mean, I'm nine years into it and I still use probably my phone more often than my professional camera For stories and reels and all these things like these videos. It's still like my most important piece of equipment for for getting paid. That being said, you know, at a certain point, if you're getting photography offers, oftentimes they want like raw images and and like high resolution images for them to use for their own print or online use or something like that.

Speaker 2: 29:45

So you can't you I bought a camera off Of my first job offer that required High resolution images.

Speaker 2: 29:54

You know, I bought a camera when when it was obvious that like it was just like I couldn't get around it right. So I don't necessarily think that it's important to a person's creativity to have like a really nice camera, but when it comes to corporate clients and things like that, sometimes you just you need it. So I I purchased a Sony I Can't even remember I think it was a 7, 2 or something back in the day. But right now I have a Sony a 7 r 5, just as it's a high resolution landscape photography camera and, yeah, I would recommend Sony but at the same time, like Canon, nikon, fuji film, it's all. It's all really good and I don't think, like you, choosing Fuji film is gonna Keep you from getting clients. I don't think clients ever really like think, oh, this person is using this camera, so I'm gonna work with them. They look at your, your body of work. Really doesn't matter like which one you choose, but at a certain point with professional Photography you're gonna need a higher resolution camera than your phone.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yeah but I will say I've gotten jobs Because I use my phone occasionally, like I'll post an image that's an iPhone shop and and Apple will reach out. Or, like you know, there are certain clients that really appreciate cell phone Creation. You know there's a lot of accessories Out there that I've also done jobs with that are like iPhone accessories. So, like it's, you know, it's important to to use your phone is also important to have a high resolution megapixel camera when you start getting like freelance photography work.

Speaker 1: 31:46

For sure, for sure. And is there like a favorite Lens that you have, or if someone's just starting out and they want to get one lens, like, do you have something that would be recommendation for that?

Speaker 2: 31:56

I Do for what I do. I'm a landscape photographer. So I got a 16 to 35 f4 lens Back in like 2014 when I first got that Sony camera, and I still use that lens like probably 75% of the time. It's the same lens. It's super beat up at this point but yeah, if you're into landscape photography, I think 16 to 35 is is kind of a core lens to have, and then maybe second to that I have a 24 to 240, which is a massive range. So 24 is relatively wide and 240 millimeter is is pretty zoomed in. So If I'm going out somewhere that potentially would have wildlife, it's nice to have that Zoom lens capability. You know, I could take a photo of a bear or whatever with that 240 millimeter. So, depending on where I'm at in the world and the subject matter that I'm hoping to shoot. Um, those are my two most common lenses.

Speaker 1: 33:04

Very good. And then another thing I'm wondering is how important it is for people to know Post-production work and use those types of programs that can be overwhelming. Do people need to know that? Or you know, or or not in the professional world?

Speaker 2: 33:18

Um, I'm an advocate for very little post-production. I, I don't like it. I don't like sitting in front of the computer more than I need to. But there are people that have made their whole career off of having a specific editing style. Um, you know, I've I've never used presets, I've never even opened photoshop. Um, I exclusively use lightroom. Um, and I, I my typical editing time is probably one minute, one to five minutes.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Um, you know, for a Photo that I'm going to post on my feed, uh, maybe I'll edit it for five minutes. Um, so, yeah, I, I don't spend much time in the post-processing. Um, I know it's a way to to set yourself apart if you want to have a signature. Look, it's almost like sometimes I go to people's feed and it looks like they're in some alternate reality because, um, you know, it's darker than normal or like the yellows are turned orange. It's like, wow, this is like I've been there, it, it looks kind of like an alternate, like uh, twist on reality and, um, you know, that's uh, it's a different way to go about it. Um, but my opinion is, I don't ever want to send somebody to a specific place, like the Grand Canyon or something, and they get there and they think, oh, it doesn't actually look like that. You know, because, because I do know that, like, occasionally people have gone like been inspired to go see a certain view because of my work, so it just doesn't really sit right with me.

Speaker 2: 35:00

I'm trying to edit it as close to what it looks like in real life as possible, um, but at the same time I do spend a lot of time in the front end, like you're asking about post-processing. That's back-end work. I spent a lot of time on the front end Going to the location. Maybe I show up at 3 pm and for some reason the lighting is kind of off. It's not what I like, um.

Speaker 2: 35:24

So I have an app on my phone called photo pills that can predict where the sun will be at certain times. So maybe I get there and the sun's behind me, but I want it to be in front of me because I like to shoot, um, into the sun more than away from the sun. So I'll figure out when the best time of day is where the sun is in the in the frame, in the frame, and I'll come back then and and just you know, so I'll kind of put in the time and work before the photo, and that does a lot of the editing for me, if, if the natural light is good, you know.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. That makes a lot of sense. So, yeah, I'm wondering if you can just um tell us, if just the major ways Um a professional photographer makes money, just like some of the what you've seen out there that people can expect to decide um, I make my money two ways.

Speaker 2: 36:16

So I I do sponsored posts occasionally on on my instagram feed and then oftentimes A client will find me through my instagram feed but will hire me, not necessarily to post Back onto my feed, but to just come out and take photos, uh, for them and so that they could use those photos to post on their feed or on their website or print out or whatever. So, like, it is somewhat funneled through my instagram channel, but about half the time it doesn't end up on that channel. Um, and I generally can charge a lot more when I'm marketing and putting it on my instagram feed. Um, but that's also somewhat stressful, like, because sometimes, like the, the product's not Super on brand for me, so I don't really want to endorse it on my page, but I'm happy to To take photos of that that product and have them use it. You know what I'm saying. Like I'm not, I don't have a crazy high standard of things that I take photos of, but I do have A high standard of what I put on my instagram feed. You know what I'm saying. So, um, sometimes I'll negotiate, sometimes they'll want me to post it on my feed and I'll negotiate out of that and say no, but I can take photos for you. Um, so those are two ways that that probably the two most common ways that I make money. Um, and occasionally I'll I'll actually make money on my van builds. You know, I'll uh spend some time like, especially during the pandemic, I spent more time building my vans than Traveling the world because I couldn't travel the world, so that was a source of income For that Uh section where I just wasn't working as much as a photographer. Uh, those are my three streams of revenue, but in terms of uh Other photographers, how they make their money, um, a lot, of a lot of photographers like license their photos.

Speaker 2: 38:21

Um, like, after the fact, if you have a really, really good photo of like the grand t-tons or something, um, maybe some random corporation like a city bank or something like that, or American Express is trying to like get a new image for whatever their marketing, and they'll reach out and you can license an image for like a thousand bucks or, you know, if it's a big campaign, for like $5,000 or something like that. That's a tough one, though, because you're kind of just waiting for them to reach out. I guess maybe you could, you could put in the legwork and just reach out, send like mass reach out emails, like a hundred emails to big corporations. I just don't really know how you would get that contact information. Maybe some people have sneaky ways to do it on like LinkedIn, like finding different people, but I'm not familiar with how that is like a sustainable business practice.

Speaker 2: 39:22

One thing that people think of with photography like that they could become like a staff writer for a magazine or get like a cover on a magazine or like just magazines in general would be a source of revenue. And it's true like I've I've had multiple covers on like outside magazine and Sunset magazine and visit USA and I had a centerfold in Nat Geo. These are like prestigious things that people want but they don't pay well. Like the going rate for a cover is 500 bucks, even for like big name magazines. Even sometimes big name magazines pay less because it's like they're paying you with like the honor, like the, the resume building thing you know. So that's one thing that I would mention like kind of debunking that like being a photographer featured in a magazine is not going to make you wealthy.

Speaker 2: 40:23

What is probably the most lucrative is like working with big corporations like car companies, airlines, things like that. And you know, like some people really rely on cars because they're they're car people. You know, like, depending on what you post, if you're really into cars, maybe maybe car corporations would be like your core clients, but they're not for me. I would rather work with airlines because I'm I'm more travel based. I don't just post photos of my car very often. So every time you're posting something, if you're posting something of you in nature with clothes on, those are all potential clients. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Like every everything you post, you got to kind of like drill down into it and like where, if this is genuinely what I want to be doing, where is the potential client here? You know it's it's one thing like I can post a landscape shot of Lake Tahoe With no people in it and it's beautiful and it might perform well for the algorithm or whatever. But the only real potential client there is like tourism. You know there's not, like there's not any clothing or it's not like a car. I guess maybe it could be like an airline, but like that's. That's kind of a somewhat of a A stretch. So you know, tourism doesn't tend to pay as well as corporate clients. So cars pay well and, like I said, airlines and even maybe electronic companies, things like that.

Speaker 2: 42:07

So, if you're trying to attract an electronic company like Sony, maybe you start doing tutorials on how you created the shot or what camera use and why. Like, if you start putting things out and basically assuming the role of an expert in your field, there's a good chance that Sony eventually will reach out and want to work with you. Or, like Adobe Lightroom, you know, if, if you're doing tutorials on how to edit things, that could be a future client. Or there's a lot of new editing software coming out, especially with AI right now, if you're talking about editing and your editing process, there's a decent amount of software clients that could reach out. So that's that's a good thing to think about.

Speaker 2: 42:59

When you start going into, when you start posting and going into a certain industry. Think to yourself how many potential clients are there in this industry? You know, I think a lot of people tend to focus on the algorithm and what will perform the best. Like, for instance, I have a good buddy, jacob Witzling. He lives in the forest up in Washington and he's doing this awesome, hilarious series where he creates weird axes. Like he created like a helmet with an axe on the top and he starts chopping wood with that axe and there is really goofy and it performs really well for for social engagement, but there's not really such thing as a as a helmet axe that will reach out and want to pay him for that work, you know. So it's kind of like lots of times is a trade off with, like you trying to get like mass engagement, or are you trying to basically put out something that could be marketed and be seen as like very professional?

Speaker 1: 44:12

Yeah, very cool. Well, that was great with kind of running out of time a little bit, but I'm wondering if you have any last advice for people with photography. We've covered a lot, so, yes, anything else you wanted to add?

Speaker 2: 44:27

Yeah, I mean for me, yeah, I would say Like a current trend and likely this is going to continue this way. It's very hard to make a name for yourself in photography, videography, without showing who you are like, without showing your personality, right like, if you think of anyone who's grown to a sizable account. It's pretty rare that they're like this anonymous creator. I think it's a pretty common thing for photographers and I was this way in the beginning to like, want to just like have their work Stand out like I don't need to, nobody cares about me, I just wanted about the work. You know what I'm saying, but it's, it's a really, really tough way to go and likely you're going to burn yourself out by trying to create the best possible work and nobody's going to be able to relate to it because you're not showing the person behind the camera.

Speaker 2: 45:31

It's, it's. You know, I know a lot of people that that go the exact opposite way, that, like, generally speaking, they don't focus on the work, they focus on themselves, they focus on putting their best face forward, about being relatable, and even if they are like a struggling photographer, that's, that's relatable in and of itself, because you know most people out there are struggling photographers and trying to figure themselves out. So I would say, if, if you know you're trying to crack into the social media space, photography space, it's very important to show who you are, to document the process and even struggles that you're having, just to be relatable people. People like seeing that stuff. So that's, that's a big, big influence on success or no success if you're willing to show yourself and to express your personality in your work in that way.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing all these tips and you know, as always, people can go look at your Instagram ever changing horizon, correct and check out your work. It's just phenomenal to look at those pictures and so, yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story and all this advice for people. It's really appreciated.

Speaker 2: 46:52

Yeah, thanks for the call, kristen.

Speaker 1: 46:53

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Wayward Home Podcast. Come on over and follow my adventures on Instagram and if you have any burning van life questions, send me a DM. You'll find me over there at the Wayward Home. I hope to see you there and thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Wayward Home Podcast.