Overlanding in a truck camper in the Western US or exploring Europe in a self-built camper van? Join us as we embark on a journey of exploration with our guest, Sebastian Santabarbara. As a seasoned traveler and author of the books 'Van Life for Dummies', 'Road Life' and 'Tent Life', Seb has a wealth of knowledge to share about living on the road, building camper vans, and the ins and outs of pop-up truck campers.
We learn about what it's like to travel in a Four Wheel truck camper based on Seb's adventures - the surprising amount of living space and functionality that a pop-up truck camper offers when it is popped up, the off-road capabilities and handling of driving with a camper, capabilities for hauling gear, and more.
Kristin and Seb then compare this with each of their experiences traveling in a camper van, such as the ability to enter the living space from the cab. We also hear Seb's insights on vanlife in Europe, and what kind of vehicle suits this particular form of travel.
If you're curious about nomadic living in its many forms, or just have a love for the outdoors, this is an episode you won't want to miss!
Follow Seb Santabarbara:
sebsantabarbara.com
@sebsantabarbara
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
Overlanding in a truck camper in the Western US or exploring Europe in a self-built camper van? Join us as we embark on a journey of exploration with our guest, Sebastian Santabarbara. As a seasoned traveler and author of the books 'Van Life for Dummies', 'Road Life' and 'Tent Life', Seb has a wealth of knowledge to share about living on the road, building camper vans, and the ins and outs of pop-up truck campers.
We learn about what it's like to travel in a Four Wheel truck camper based on Seb's adventures - the surprising amount of living space and functionality that a pop-up truck camper offers when it is popped up, the off-road capabilities and handling of driving with a camper, capabilities for hauling gear, and more.
Kristin and Seb then compare this with each of their experiences traveling in a camper van, such as the ability to enter the living space from the cab. We also hear Seb's insights on vanlife in Europe, and what kind of vehicle suits this particular form of travel.
If you're curious about nomadic living in its many forms, or just have a love for the outdoors, this is an episode you won't want to miss!
Follow Seb Santabarbara:
sebsantabarbara.com
@sebsantabarbara
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
When I was thinking of upgrading my Chevy Astro Van to something a little bit bigger, I contemplated a Sprinter Van versus a Truck Camper. Truck Camper's are typically more agile and lightweight than a Sprinter, but I really wanted a large interior space that was easy to move from the front seats into the back living areas. That's why I chose a Sprinter Van, but Truck Camper's are still high on my list. In today's episode of the Wayward Home Podcast, I chat with a man who's tried both, and he has lots of tips and advice between the difference between these two types of rigs. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Wayward Home Podcast. All about van life, boat life and nomadic living. We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the road and on the water. Now here's your host, kristen Haynes. Hey there, I'm Kristen with thewaywardhomecom and I spend half the year in my camper van and half on my sailboat in Mexico. My goal is to inspire you to live nomatically too. So if you're having a tough time figuring out exactly what type of rig to get for your adventures an issue that plagues us all you'll enjoy this interview with Seb Santa Barbara about his experience in both a camper van and a truck camper. This episode first aired in the Van Life Virtual Summit last February that I put on with Project Van Life.
Speaker 2:Let's get into it hey Seb.
Speaker 1:thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. How are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really really good today. I'm in California and you are in Europe while we're talking right now, correct?
Speaker 2:This is true. Yeah, I'm in York, uk, right now.
Speaker 1:Very good, and so you've had so much experience with a variety of vehicles and camping. So I'm really excited to talk to you about your experience, and I know you've written a couple of books. So before we jump into it, just tell us a little bit about yourself and your experience with Van Life, and the names of your books.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So I started building a camper van back in 2017. I decided to move into it full time and travel around Europe. While doing that, I built the website Van Clan with a friend of mine from Bath, uk. We built Van Clan. We traveled Europe and America together speaking to different van lifers around the world, and that's when I first came over to the US to meet four wheel campers, which I'm going to get on to talk about in a little while with you. But since then I have gone on to write travel books about camping, about van life, van life for dummies, which came out with Wiley over in America, two books, road Life and Tent Life with Francis Lincoln publishers here in the UK. So it's been a wild ride since actually first making that camper van and then putting pen to paper and going from there. But I've had a lot of experience with both van conversion here in the UK and van life over in the US as well. So I'm looking forward to get back into it and talking about it all with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very cool, and I have a new van as well, a Sprinter van. But of course I thought about the four wheel camper and the truck camper and just how easy it is to go off-roading. So I'm never been in one. So I'm curious your experience with the pop-up truck camper? When did you first get in one?
Speaker 2:I've only got good things to say about these things, so it's going to be nice. I first got into a four wheel camper back in 2018. It was October 2018. Four wheel campers approached VanClan about going over and doing a week long test of two of their campers. They had the hop and the fleet models. If anyone wants to look those up there, they're just so good. I mean, the trucks you guys have out there are incredible anyway, and sticking these camping pods on the back of them, there's just no way. You can't go, nothing you can't do Over here. I mean, we're used to the Sprinter VW kind of size normal panel van. So when we touched down and came to the factory in Woodland and first saw these campers, it was just unreal. But that first trip we went everywhere, from Lake Tahoe we did Yosemite, we did Mount the Alblur. We were there for a week and I just fell in love with them. They were just so good.
Speaker 2:Everything had a place, everything was just perfectly made. It just worked. I'm coming from a background where I built my camper van from scratch. I was kind of like how is this going to work? Because I'm used to everything sort of being in a separate place that I've put it in. It was just instant. We got in everything worth. Everything made sense where it was, from the fact that the beds can pull out and lift up for your storage, to the pop-up tops with the mesh for crosswinds in hotter climates and stuff. Everything's thought out perfectly. So we had a great time with them.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So for people who haven't heard of a pop-up truck camper before and they don't know what this is, if you could describe the concept of what a pop-up truck camper is- Sure.
Speaker 2:So it's a module that goes onto the back of a truck bed so you can keep it on there all the time. You can sort of unhook it when you want to use your truck again and stand it up on wheels and keep it on your drive outside or in a garage. You can have flatbed options as well, so you can just bolt it to the flatbed of your truck and keep it on forever. The idea with the pop-up is you get in and you use two gas-assisted lifts on the front and the back and it raises up, kind of like you would see a VW California, but the whole thing comes up. So when it's down you can sit in it, but you can't stand up. Pop it up. They have fold-down windows and a plastic there that comes off as well, so you can let the air in through the mesh or you can just keep the windows closed.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're awesome. You can go into full stealth mode if you want to go into well, there's nothing stealthy about a truck, I know. But if you want to go into a supermarket, you can go into the barriers. If you want to go to the beach and you need to keep a low profile, you can keep them down as soon as you get to a camping spot. Pop it up and away you go.
Speaker 1:That sounds really neat. And so inside of these things do they have a lot of the same creature comforts as a camper van would have?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the idea with four wheelers you can go and you can either I mean, you can customize everything you want so you could have a shower in the. You go and have a consultation with them. It sounds like I'm working for them. I'm not. I just love these things. So I realized if they're listening they'll be like, yeah, this guy knows his stuff, but you can go and you can customize what you want in your setup. So if you really want to have a shower in there, you can work around that. They've got stock models. But you just talk to them and say, okay, yes, I want this chair to go here, I want the bed to lift up this way. I really need a single bed for a child down this section.
Speaker 2:The second time I went over, we took out a new model they had back in 2019 called the Project M. This is like a really bare bones camper that you can go in and just do what you want. It's a bed and the base and that's it, so you can fit your own sink in there. If you come from a DIY background, if you want to go the full hog and get like the hog flat bed camper, you can. All the bells and whistles are already in there, you gas, you're AC, you sink, you cook in facilities, you toilet area. So, like they do, a range of packages for depending on what you want and how much you want to go into DIY mode yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 2:I think I should try and work for their marketing team. At this rate I might, if you're listening, guys give me a call.
Speaker 1:Did you test the indoor shower thing or did you use like an outdoor shower when you were using it?
Speaker 2:We just used outdoor showers, kind of washing in lakes and that kind of thing, with you know by us up and everything you know, just stop, I was just jumping and jump out again. It was when we kind of went. I'm from a very kind of DIY, minimalistic van life kind of you know system here in Europe, so we didn't kind of go for the full package like that. We just made do with showering outside when we were at like Ysemite and places like I went into campsites. But it's amazing, wherever you take one of these things, people do look and they're like what is this? And they sell themselves because it's so cool, right, I know.
Speaker 1:I literally just saw one. Last weekend I was up at like Tahoe doing some skiing and I saw one of these and it fit on the shortest bed of a pickup truck and it looks so tiny when it was popped down. But then I saw it up and I'm like wow, that's like a decent living space. I was surprised at just how little it looked when it was down.
Speaker 2:It's crazy because as soon as you put the top up, like you can sit up in bed like you're not touching the roof. One of the things I always look for when I get into a camp is can I stand up and touch the roof and everything? Because I like to cook when I'm and I don't like being bent over and there's so much space in there. It's like a little TARDIS completely once you get in and pop it open and yeah, like you know, two weeks in one of those. I mean I know people who live in them full time and travel all the time and they have never complained once about the space in there. And you know, the most of them is two weeks and it's been, it's been incredible every time.
Speaker 1:Well, and how was it? How was the handling of driving the truck with the camper on it?
Speaker 2:Awesome, yeah. So the first time I had a Toyota Tacoma, the second was a Dodge Ram and I mean, again, you guys know how to make trucks like they were so good, but with the campers on the back, like you just don't feel it, because when they pop down, obviously, like it's, it's a compact model there's, if you are pulling an airstream, for example, you can tell. You know you've got something behind you because it's all one model and it's popped down and it's all sleek and compact. You do not feel a difference. You know I've driven trucks with or without these, these on, and you know the difference is very marginal. You know, like it's not like you're going to change your entire driving experience for having one on the back.
Speaker 2:And when we're going off, we've gone off road with kayaks on the side. We've gone off road with, like you know, skis and things, like on the top with surfboards and again, like everything just fits, you don't realise that you're carrying in the extra weight. You know we've been some serious off-roading in them as well, like it's a place where there are no roads. Who tested them out? Big style is all I can say. And yeah, they were, they were just a dream. They're awesome, in fact, like I really want to get one, but there was no way I could park one in the city I live in. It was just too big, I couldn't do it. But you guys over there I have no problem, obviously, a lot of room, absolutely so much room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so many tiny roads where I live Like it's never going to happen.
Speaker 1:Wow, I didn't think of that, like you can't even have a pickup truck over there because the roads are too narrow. I wanted a school bus on that.
Speaker 2:I realised I could not take it anywhere. How funny. So yeah, you said you took on like serious off-roading.
Speaker 1:Tell me a little bit more about about that. Yeah, so we went.
Speaker 2:The second time when we went, we were filming like a commercial for the, for the new, the new models, and I want to say this is what my memory failed me. I want to say Rollins Lake. I don't know whether that's the right name or not, so if it isn't I apologise. But we kind of went to find some really like we can, kind of went off the beaten path a little bit to try and find some nice places for shots and stuff. And you know, we're talking roads that were kind of like not straight, and roads that definitely were bumpy, you know, and even just just cruising.
Speaker 2:I remember when the first time I came over, we took them up to Mount, up the top of Mount Diablo. Again, that was roads all the way. But just, I think from my experience of taking a though I had a Vox on the Vana which is like a sprinter and it was, it was heavy I think my experience of taking that up rose to taking a four wheel camper up roads and it was just like it was just like it was just like it was just like it was so simple, so easy, like to the stress out of everything. I wasn't thinking I was going to break down halfway through. I wasn't worried about fuel consumption. I was worried about going backwards and reversing all the way down the hill. You know it was. It was a breeze in one of these things, so I loved it yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool. And yeah, I was curious the difference between camping one of those versus a van, because I know you've done both. So I'm curious what are some of the main differences?
Speaker 2:I think, like obviously you've got to get into the mindset of right, I need to get in and pop this up. I need to Make sure I'm popping it down when I set off, like I mean, you know, like they're very simple things Like so I'm used to just coming and I had, like my van was basically like a log cabin on wheels so I could get in and it was all wood cladded on the inside. So like the aesthetic is different on the inside. I guess it's it's easier to look after a four wheel camper on the inside definitely, and Sort of just I mean I had plastic windows on mine again, once the the roof is popped open and you can create a really nice crosswind. That was really useful, sort of like a hot nights as well.
Speaker 2:They're definitely they feel more like a Swiss Army knife than what I, um, a panel van would do. I guess depend because they're tailored for your weekend warriors through to your full-time campus, whereas, like my camper van was very when I when I built it, it's very For just full-time living, so like it wouldn't do for everybody, whereas I think you could Jump in a four wheel camper for like a three-day trip or a three-month trip and kind of find everything you need Ready and they're waiting for you, whether you've spoken to them about Making your own custom design or not, like you could just get one off the shop floor and just go and it worked for everybody, whereas I feel like if you're making your own van, you're tailoring it more to what you're supposed to like. Yeah, I feel like anyone could jump in one and just get on with it straight away, and the main difference for me is the fact that you can pop it down and you are on a like and you can remove it as well. So you've got your own vehicle, which is really awesome, was like, if you again your panel van.
Speaker 2:In this country we're now in the UK it's hard to Just hard to park that van and also the space, whereas you could just, like I said before, you could just stick this module in a in a garage and then just take your truck and go down to the store and get everything you need and you've basically got two purpose vehicles. So that's something I really like about it as well, that dual purpose of having this module on your truck. Still so, yeah, that's kind of the main differences that I found and also, again, I wouldn't want to take the van off-road here, you know, but trucks there is no. There's no end to the journey.
Speaker 1:Totally, and did they have any like downsides that you became aware of or that people should be aware of that are thinking about getting one of these?
Speaker 2:And I'm supposed to probably say yes at this point but to seem like I'm not being biased, but I just loved them. Honestly, I don't think. I mean I just love the fact how big the trucks were To climb up into them for starters. No, I mean I've come in from a world where I'm using like stick stick shift over here, like obviously you guys all have automatics. Well, most of them are automatic, like that's the only thing it took to get my head around at first when it was about 14 seconds and I was fine. I can see no Bad points and I've used them two times now, three times in a couple of months. I know it sounds like I'm just sort of being biased because I really love them, but yeah, I can't find any bad points at all.
Speaker 2:You know I've seen so many different models, like I said, from the base project M, where there's just the like week of yourself to like custom flatbeds. I mean I've been at the factory when people have brought their own over that they've modified. There's some awesome machines with like aftermarket parts as well. People have put all the extra, like the storage on the outside and you know different windows in there and everything, and you know, you go in and you see how people have. I think, because they are some modular on the inside, you can do whatever you want when you're speaking to them, when you want to get them made. So no complaints from me whatsoever.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Yeah, the only thing that I was thinking about when I was considering one was that you always have to get out of your truck to go into the camper. You know you have to actually get out of the vehicle and walk outside to get in. That's the only thing. I was thinking that maybe you would be a downside for some people sometimes. I don't know if it's that big of a deal, but yeah, see, again, I'm coming from a.
Speaker 2:I didn't have that, and when I designed the van for me, I put my kitchen in the bulkhead, so there was no cut through. So that's kind of like that's coming from, probably like my own experience. Now, you said that that is something that most people, some people, would like, but there's never been an issue for me, like I've always kind of gone from from into the side door in mind, and I know, for safety issues, some people like to be able to get into the into the back. So, yeah, I guess that is a downside, that's one that I'm not considered because I is not something that I have in my own build. But yeah, so thank you for being the, thank you for being the, the impartial voice.
Speaker 1:I was only thinking that, because when we we use our van all the time and we always stop at, you know, rest areas or in parking lots and we, just if it's raining, you just walk into the back of the van and make your lunch or whatever, and it's a little more private than having to get out, you know. But that's probably kind of a small, probably a small downside. It's just personal preference, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're probably right. You're probably right.
Speaker 1:Totally. And then and you did see people hauling gear on these things because that was another thing I was wondering, because you know we haul like five surfboards and windsurfing gear and all you know so much stuff and bikes, and then but you said you saw a lot of people hauling stuff on these, which is cool to know about.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, like we took. We took an incredibly large kayak on the on the top of the. It was the Hawk Flatbed Camper, so we took a kayak on that. We had paddleboards on the side. We did some stints with surfboards.
Speaker 2:So these things and they can carry, like it can carry a lot as well. So with the, you know, with the, the top popped down, you can have, like you know, a big kayak on the top. They do surfboard holders, paddleboard holders for the sides, you know spare wheels and canisters on the backs. Like they're sturdy, they're sturdy equipment and I've seen them in the fact that when they've been built as well and it's just, it's kind of like a thing of beauty when you're watching them making it, because it's just so precise, like getting all these templates out. You know it's a well oiled machine when they're making them and they're built to last. And they're built to you know, as sometimes when you see like old wooden campers and you get like rotting them, you know like these these are made of rock with steel and you know they they're built to last. Like you get one and it will, it will do the test of time unbelievably.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so cool that they're so hardy and I feel like the price point could be a little more reasonable for people where you sit. You're seeing these new Sprinter class B vans for like $300,000. It's like what?
Speaker 2:I cannot. I cannot believe this Like so I I built. I bought a van for 3000 UK pounds and did it up for another three and a half, so I think I guess we're talking like $10,000. I was buying the van and doing it up. So when you see expensive models like that like 300,000, I just think you know if it would be ace to get a project M flat four wheel camper, which is the. You know it's a very reasonable price and to then do your own design on the inside and you've got the best of both worlds. You know, and even they are a reasonable price for anyone who has got a truck as well and wants to just chuck it on off the back. I think, like if I lived there which I'd love to do one day I would totally go down that road 100%, just because how versatile they are as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's a good point. Next, I think you can get the product M for not totally sure on the pricing right now, but maybe around like 20,000 or something, which is fairly affordable, you know, to get that, and then you just have the price of the truck. So yeah, especially if you get a used truck.
Speaker 2:Exactly, If you get if you've already got a truck. I've got a used one that you can. You know that you can repurpose for using for your truck camper travels. You know it's, it's a no brainer, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Totally so. Where did you go? You've done two, two or three trips with them so far. You were saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the first time we did, you're testing me now. The first time we went Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, we did, we came down to Big Sur and then we did Mount Diablo I think. The second time we were basically going up and down. What's the highway by Big Sur?
Speaker 1:You're going to have to know one One highway one.
Speaker 2:So easy. Yeah, Just name the first number. Yeah, we're going up and down highway one because we were kind of fat picking locations for filming. So we did. We did a few reservoirs. We went back to Tahoe. We were actually at a paddleboard festival at Lake Tahoe, which was amazing. I'm really into my paddleboard and so that was great. This is me padding to think about the rest of the places we went to, Just trying to create time for myself. Yeah, we were kind of going up and down that stretch just finding cool locations, and this time I'm going to be there for three weeks bringing my cousin who's a photographer, so we're going to explore, go through California, into Nevada, maybe come down into Baja. We're not sure yet what we're doing Somewhere I've always wanted to go, so we're kind of doing some free trip planning at the minute now. So we're looking forward to taking one of these out for another three weeks and just getting into grips with it and doing some more work with the four world campers guys. It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 1:Cool, and I have seen and heard of people taking these to Baja. When I was there I saw a bunch of them. It seems like they'd be good for that kind of off-roading.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, like I said before, they've stood the test when we've done off-roading before, so I am confident they could do it again 100%.
Speaker 1:Cool. And so you said you've talked to people who've lived in these before. What kinds of things were they saying about them?
Speaker 2:Well, I interviewed Bound for Nowhere in one of the books I've written Road Life and was chatting to them about how they created their custom van and how they worked with four wheel to make it perfect for everything they needed. They've never had a problem in this. I remember we were coming, some climbers and we spoke to a guy who had his dad had got one and he'd taken it off him. It was still going. It was like one of the very first ones the company made and like, if you could have seen his smile, you would have just known how much he absolutely loved it still. Like he was just so about the brand, so about the whole ethos of the company and how like awesome it was to live in it was. You know it was like, okay, I'd like to change this and change that a little bit, but you know he's like you cannot go wrong with this machine and he was loving it. And Dan, who was my contact and friend from four wheel, he had a couple of teachers in his van and passed them on and you know this guy was just loving life. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:So it's really cool to be over there and like and see them and like, you know, if you see a sprinter come past in this country it doesn't really feel that exciting.
Speaker 2:But if you're over there and you see them come past and the Honda beeping and you pull up next to somebody else who's got one and just kind of like everyone's got a story, who seems to have one of these vans, and it's kind of like you know they collect the t-shirts, they collect the stickers and stuff that goes with it and it's kind of like I want to say like part of the identity, like you buy one of these vans and it's like you kind of join this club almost and if everyone's in it, they all kind of like get excited about meetups and stuff. And when we went to we covered one of the meetups with Vanclan and there was so many people there with four wheeled campers and it was just wicked just seeing everyone there and just chatting and like this little community. Honestly, everyone we spoke to was had awesome things to say about them. So they're doing something right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have heard that there's like owners groups and on Facebook and the meetups and that people really like to talk about these campers and help each other out with them and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool. It's just like a little. Like I said, it's like a community and it's wicked. So you know you can just let they have these awesome meetups and they do have, like you know, troubleshooting if things go wrong and stuff. And if anything does go wrong, like the guys are awesome on Instagram and on the social media and stuff for sort of helping our customers, so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have you been in like one of those full size truck campers before? I've never been in one, but I'm wondering if you've been in one of those.
Speaker 2:I've been in a. What was it? It was a. It was massive. I've been in like a. It's like a castle on wheels. They have a festival here in the UK called Quirky Camp Quirky. There's a company called Quirky Campers who rent out interesting and very sort of bespoke campervans. It was a uni mug, I think, with a camper on it and it was just massive. You had to go up multiple stairs to get inside it. Would I drive one of those? No, it just feels like you're taking a tank around with you. Yeah, like, definitely a camping pod on the back of a to come, or like a Dodge Ram is my kind of ideal. You know, setup 100%.
Speaker 2:But if you get a, chance to go in a huge castle on wheels. Do it because those big truck campers are something to behold, just get. Maybe get someone else to drive it if you feel a little unsure.
Speaker 1:Cool. So you're thinking if you came to the states to be nomadic for a while, you would choose the pop-up truck camper.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think, because, a, because it's different to what I've had while traveling through Europe and the UK and, honestly, b, just for ease as well, just because they're so simple, I totally would recommend anyone who's not tried one Just take one on a little trip and just get you know, just have a bash, because they're wicked.
Speaker 1:Totally, and I have seen people that have used them over. There was one couple I interviewed that drove actually through Asia with one and they were in Afghanistan with one and everything that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was talking with Daniel and they you know the world's talk of stockists coming into Germany and in Europe as well. In fact, I think there is a stockist. I should have done my homework. Sorry, daniel, if you're listening, I apologize, but I'm going to go text when this goes out. I know I haven't, but yeah, the last, the last I heard Germany were getting stock of four wheel campers. I haven't seen any in the UK yet. It would be amazing to see some kind of coming up north and into Scotland where it's more rural over here, because doing the Scotland north, of course 500 in a four wheel camper would be an absolute dream. Yeah, like they're so good in America, like I see them all the time and with a, and yeah, it would be wicked to get them over in the UK. So I should work harder on making that happen probably.
Speaker 1:Maybe you could ship one over in a container.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah Again. If, guys, if you listen to it, let's let this happen.
Speaker 1:That sounds amazing. It sounds fun as well to do like van life or truck camper life in over in Europe. I have not done that yet and that sounds like a neat experience. You did that for many years.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean I don't know how long you've got on this interview. I mean van life in I think we covered this a lot with Vanclan life, vanclan and van life in the States to the to Europe is very different. You guys have got way more places you can park up and stuff over there, especially since COVID, over here like everything's kind of like locked down. I was looking at it, I did it before COVID hit and there were so many places people are like more wearing now of like people just camping up anywhere over here. But I've taken bands like into the sand dunes of Sardinia, french Alps, you know, parking up on lakes in Slovenia, and it's just been unreal Like, if you get chance to do it, I would so recommend it because, like I mean, everything's old over here as well, especially when you get to the UK, everything is old, it's, you know, getting up into the Scottish Highlands. There's just nothing like it.
Speaker 2:It's amazing, like it's a very dramatic difference of scenery and obviously me, my family being Italian as well like I try, and you know I spent a lot of time in Italy and in like Northern Liguria and coming down into Tuscany, and it's just for me it's amazing, you know, like because you can just park up in these lovely little villages and you can. You know, a guy saw me a big wheel of Parmesan cheese from the boot of his car, the trunk of his car, you know, and it's just like little things, like he got a little weighing scales out and he's cutting his cheese. And we're chatting in Italian and it's just yeah, it's very slow pace of life with a slow style of life. When you get into, like these little European villages in your van and I'd recommend it to anybody if you could ship over or just rent a van over here for a month it's definitely an experience.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, one day we might have to ship our van over and do a couple of years over there.
Speaker 2:I'm going to miss this, and if you do, give me a shout and I will join you for a leg of the journey, that'll be amazing.
Speaker 1:Totally cool. Wow, so many good things. I'm wondering do we miss anything about four wheel campers that people need to know?
Speaker 2:I think we've come in. I'll let you say once again that I've written about four wheel campers in all of my books. If anyone wants to search for Sebastian Santabarbara online, no, I think we've covered everything. I mean sturdy, reliable. I've loved every time I've used them. I've not been paid to say this. I absolutely love them. They are epic vehicles, Super simple to use. I've never had a cold night in one. I've never been too hot and warm. They just work. They're just sick. I do regularly sing their praises to anyone that I meet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do seem awesome and I've seen a lot of them too in the States. They're everywhere in California and Oregon and the West Coast especially.
Speaker 2:You cannot miss them. They're so iconic that you can't miss them.
Speaker 1:Cool. So where again? Where can people find you online and find your books?
Speaker 2:Well, I am on Instagram at Seb Santabarbara. My books are available worldwide. If you're Banzan, noble Amazon. If you're in the UK, waterstones, wh Smiths, there's German translation and Czech translation is coming out of Road Life. Tent Life to Follow. It's coming out in April. Van Life and Dummies is available worldwide. If anyone wants to build a camper van from scratch and figure out how to do that with zero experience and how to live in a van as well, both in the UK and the US, if you're worried about that off taking your job on the roads Half memoir, I suppose, really, and half guide on how to do it. I'm really proud of all of them, and the four of the campers do feature in both Van Life books, so if anyone's up for finding out more about them and reading about the experiences of me and other people who use them full time as well, then that's like a good guide on how to find out more about them as well.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the Van Life Summit. It was great to have you and hear all about four wheel campers. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me. It's been great. It's been great chatting.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Wayward Home Podcast. Remember to subscribe to my email list. Go to thewaywardhomecom. Forward slash subscribe. I share tips and advice about nomadic living and little tidbits about my own personal time on the road.
Speaker 2:I hope to see you over there.
Speaker 1:See you next time on the Wayward Home Podcast.