Starting van life can be challenging. There's so much to learn! From where to park and sleep, to how to stock your kitchen, to dumping black tanks if you have a Class B RV that comes with those.
The learning curve can be pretty big, and we've all had those moments where we aren't sure what we're doing.
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Today we are speaking with Gabe and Ross with our mix journey on how to get started living van life as beginners. We all were there at one time or another, so it's good to go over the basics. So thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for having us here. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So first of all, tell us a little bit about your journey. When did you start living in. We did, well first we started actually RV Life. We were living in Puerto Rico. And Puerto Rico got hit by Hurricane Maria. We were tired of dealing with hurricanes, so we did what any normal person would do. We sold everything and bought a, a fifth wheel and a big truck, and moved within about a month. Uh, we did that for about a year and a half full time. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, During the pandemic and early height of it. In 2020, we were sitting stationary cuz we couldn't really do anything. And she looks at me, she goes, Hey, what do you think about getting a Van I'm like, what? We're literally sitting in an rv. And uh, of course she didn't take much to convince me and we started looking into it and. Kind of rest is history, I guess. So yeah, with the pandemic it was supposed to be more like weekend trips since we have the big uh, fifth wheel. But as soon as we did the very first uh, road trip to go get the van, that was it. We fell in love like this is it, we're moving Yeah. That's amazing. Cuz I feel like a lot of people have, you know, a hard time going from a bigger rig into a smaller rig. But what was, what, like why did you suddenly love the van so much when you first saw it? So the main attraction was that during the pandemic, a lot of, uh, campgrounds and state parks were closed and our rig was too big to just go in Bundock. So for us to be able to travel and then the style of travel had changed too. So we were going at a faster pace. And with the big rig, it's kind of impossible to go at a fast pace. Yeah. With the van, you can pretty much pick up and go and be in a different location every day. Flexibility is the word. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. And so you guys went with a class B R V. If you can tell us a little bit about that and what led you to that particular model. So for those that don't know, class B is essentially a pre-made by a company, uh, van Build. And we looked into slightly kind of doing it ourselves, but really decided, you know what, we don't have the time or the space or materials considering we were living in a fifth wheel at the time without the the space. And so we started looking into the RV life and really found out. you know, we know the RV life for, for what it is, essentially. And then found that they had the Class B vans, which. Turnkey ready to go. And what was really appealing about it was the fact that it didn't have nearly as much upfront cost as it would be to buy a van and build it out. Uh, and we were able to get, you know, a loan and do it normal payment style through the, uh, RV dealership and with a bank and everything. And it also came with a warranty on the vehicle itself and the, the construction. and chassis stuff, so they, everything kind of clicked and made sense. Yeah, that seems almost easier because we're doing a D I Y van, you know, right now. And of course, you know, financing that kind of thing is harder. Finding insurance for that is harder, where, you know, the Class B is already an rv, so it's all those components fall into place, I think a little easier. Yeah. Yeah. The insurance thing is actually, is actually a big one too, because it, his rv, you just go like, we have Progressive and they have the RV insurance, and that was another thing that we found out was just kind of plug and play Super. Yeah. That's amazing. And what kind of components are inside your RV to make it really comfortable? So that was a major thing also, that the van that we actually liked or ended up with came pretty much ready to go. So it had already solar install generator, which we didn't wanna be opening holes in in the van. We were really scared of doing anything like that. So the fact that was already set up, that was a big plus. and um, so we also are not that much into having to, we didn't have to have a custom. A lot of people want the design to be in certain way that like, More like them, but for us, something standard was fine too. Yeah. And it really, like you said, came with everything. Full Bathroom was another one that, oh, that was a huge one. with hot water and air conditioning and stuff. So it has everything. It's, it's essentially, it has everything that the fifth wheel had just woo. Smaller package. And the bike rack, it came with the bike rack. That's right. Cool. So much. Yeah. So what were some of the adjustments you guys had to make as brand new, you know, van Lifers in this, in this smaller rig than a fifth wheel? What was that like? Um, at first for you guys? It was, it wasn't as difficult, uh, as, I'll put it to you like this. Had we gone straight from our apartment, To the van, we probably would be divorced But the fact that we went from, uh, from van to fifth wheel and then it was kind of like a progression. We learned, uh, a lot of the RV lifestyle and, and. The maintenance and stuff that, that goes with it. And then it was just a matter of downsizing and getting used to a smaller space, at least for me. Yeah. And we were already kind of used to living tiny, so leaving things behind wasn't that much of a worry. Also, we set out, we on, we still had the big, uh, RV in California, so we just put whatever we needed and set up the van for like an adventure for three months. It was supposed to be for three months. So when we left, we still had a lot of things that were just back in the rv, um, in the fifth wheel. Yeah. We ended up flying back. We did it for what, like a month and we decided, yeah, it's, yep. We, we were in the middle of our, our three month trip and uh, we said, you know what? I think we're gonna do this. So we flew back across the country. Sold the fifth wheel, everything. And then like again, fire sale, give away stuff in a matter of a week. In a week. Wow. So you really got into the the van thing, you really liked it Yes. Yeah, I loved it. Very cool. And what about, some people have written me emails and they're like, well, how do I like dump a tank in an rv? Like how, how did you guys do, what was that like for the first time? Was it scary? Or what tips do you have for people on that? Um, it's not as scary as That's too scary. Yeah. of expertise. Yeah. The fun, the fun job. it's not as, as scary. Uh, I can understand kind of the trepidation at the, at the beginning. And the biggest thing, tips that I can give are, have latex gloves. Make sure the valves are closed before you open the, uh, and take off like the, the cap, the cap off of. The, the tank. And what we did is we actually, they have like a two or three inch, uh, clear extension for that cap and for the, between the, the pipe and the cap. And that's a good one that we use, or I use, I guess uh, because it, it, it lets you know if for some reason, you know, you're going off road like we like to do and you hit a big bump or something and you don't realize maybe that your black tank. uh, kicked open. Kicked open, like you hit the, the, the rod on it and it opened up If you go to, to do your thing, well, you know, you may be a seasoned veteran and everybody has had at least some kind of accident. If you've been in this game, uh, it's not fun. Uh, but with that, with that clear little, uh, piece, you can see what's going on and you know, like, okay, everything should be good, no big deal. And then it's just a matter of, you know, connecting the hoses. And, uh, what I usually do, and most people do, is some people do a little bit of gray and then black and then gray again to kind of wash the tanks. I just do black first. Make sure that gray is always the last one that you do, so it. Does as best of a, a job as possible for cleaning out the tanks. Yeah. Interesting. And one thing that's cool about your, your guys' rig as opposed to mini vans is it actually has a real flap tank, right? Like a real flush toilet. Yes. Yes. Yes, he does. That seems it's definitely a plus. Yeah. Yeah. We have that, or I have not done the, uh, like the cassettes, toilets and stuff, so I can't really pers I've seen it being done and I know people that have done it, but I personally. kind of attest to that. Yeah. Yeah. The Black Tank itself is pretty easy. it seems easier than having to carry a loaded cassette into a public bathroom. To me. I haven't done either one. Yes, but it seems easier. yes, I, I agree. I agree. I'm clumsy, so I don't wanna know what that would be like. I have a bad feeling about that if I had to do it. Very true. One thing did consider at some point, um, getting. compostable. What is compost? Toilet. Composting toilet. Mm-hmm. Um, however, the way that the van is set up and how the black tank is, it wasn't gonna be an easy job, so we just decided to leave it like that. And it was only for the purpose to extend the gray, the gray tank to go for longer periods of time. But we're pretty good, so it works. We have a neat, yeah. Yeah. One of the things is you learn your rig and what your kind. Ranges for when you're going and you're boom docking and stuff like that. After you go out once or twice, you know, okay, how much water I can use, uh, how much bathroom space essentially there is at the take. Mm-hmm. and you, you kind of know that, okay, three or four days of this type and et cetera. Totally. So you just get used to that over time and you get to know what your lengths are with, with your water supply and stuff. Yes. Yeah, Cool. And so you guys started, um, going boondocking for the first time in this van, right? You hadn't boondock in the past. Very limited experience with the rv, with the big RV because we didn't have solar and we had, um, the refrigerator was a domestic, like one from the, for a house, so it drained a lot of power and the batteries we had were agm, so it didn't last, not even eight hours and we would be, yeah, without power. So we tried it like twice. The thing about Van Life is it is so much more economical as far as battery life and the ability to get up and go as needed. So, yeah, well, like she said, well we did do, you know, a handful of times the boom docking nowhere near is easy and now we're, where we were 90 plus percent RV uh, campgrounds before. Now it's the other way around. Now it's like 90 something percent boom docking, and most of the time when we go to a campground, it's basically like, oh, it's a place to dump and a long shower. Yeah. You know, along the way, which is another thing you'll learn with apps and stuff along the way where you can dump and find places to fill up and stuff like that as well. Yeah, very true. We also use campgrounds in the same way, just to have a 10 minute shower if we want that Yes. So a lot of people are also afraid of boondocking for the first time. They write me emails about that. And, um, what was that like for you guys and what are some tips for brand new, uh, boondockers out there? I think the main thing is to be prepared before going, um, so have all your groceries, for example, before you go, the amount of water you're gonna need, if you want to stay for like 10 days. I mean, in a event probably will be more like three to five Yeah. So having enough supplies, and I know your. So the first, one of the first experiences we had, the van was way too low to the ground, and we went Tiny lake. Yeah, we went through a road that was pretty much for offroading, but we saw that there was a, you know, a spot for boondocking. So we just went for it. But oh boy, I was just like this the entire time. Everything was shaking. I'm like, this is gonna break apart. So it was, it was very painful. I would know. Do that again, Yeah. So you gotta know your rig, where you're going first, know your limitations before you venture to something like that. Yeah. We did, uh, we did a couple of upgrades. One of the ones that we did was we, we put a lift on the van af. It was almost immediately, I think after, right after that. And the tires. And the tires and stuff. And the tires. But you, uh, you do learn the limits of what you're, of, what you're comfortable with, because you can push your, sometimes pass. Really what the limits may be. I don't necessarily, I don't recommend it. Recommend it. Uh, especially if you're full timing, that's your home. any, any time you have to fix things or do things, it's a lot more hectic. But, uh, yeah, that, that was, uh, an interesting trip. Pine Lake Yeah. And probably a lot of people think boondocking means you're going down really rough roads, but there's plenty of smooth dirt roads. Right? Right. Yes. What I would suggest for people that that have never really done boondocking is, is kind of what we refer to as boondocking light. Maybe go to a state park or a national park or something of that nature where there are people and some amenities around and then just don't, they usually don't have hookups or sometimes they do, but you can go to one of those places where you feel like you're in nature. You don't have to have the hookups and, and do a couple of trial runs, and then maybe do. like you said, find one that it's like a nice little gravel road, and then work yourself up to a crazy Piney Lake down the side of a rocking mountain before you go Full blown into it. Yeah, that's a good idea. Try stuff. That's not quite as challenging with off-road skills, huh? Yes, very true. So did you guys do any other types of, um, upgrades to your, to your rig, like extra solar or anything like that? we added solar. We have now, uh, two additional panels on the roof. We were doing pretty good with the one that it came with. However, we needed more storage. So for storage, we put an overhead, um, what is the name for one of those? Cargo box. Cargo box on top. But it was on top of the solar panel. Yeah. So half of the solar panel we lost because of that. So we added two slim panels just to compensate, and it's made a big difference. We, we went from a g m to, uh, lithium batteries. Um, we did the lift, we added, uh, offroad tires, an offroad, offroad tires, and then a spare tire on the back. Yeah, those are all, and then little other little things on knickknacks and stuff on the inside, but those were the big ones. Those are the major ones. Cool. And have you guys also done like city boondocking, like at Walmarts and, and truck stops and stuff? Oh, we have done tour of the Walmart. We, yeah, we have been to Walmarts all over the country. Cracker Barrel. Yeah. And Cabela's is a little bit more upscale for those that wanna do the, uh, the mooch docking or overnight stays. Uh, but yeah, we've done all of those places over the country. Yeah. Cool. And has all that been pretty seamless and gone. Thank God. Yes. I mean, yeah, I'm gonna knock because we still haven't got the knock in two, almost two years. Oh. Van, uh, van Life. Van Life. And we have not gotten the knock. So we do, we, we try to go to, to places using apps like I overlander and Road trippers and stuff like that, that it says that it's. uh, boom, docking friendly. Uh, sometimes it has no information, but yeah, luckily no. And usually if it is like a Walmart, we generally see if there's, uh, other rigs around or if there is, uh, trucks also parked. So we try to like park on that area. And if they don't have any, cuz some Walmarts don't allow overnight, we call just to make sure that the managers said, yeah, it's okay. Yeah. Yep. That's a good tip. I've done that before too and have been told Nope. yes. Like so have we, so have we so that's good to call and then you know that you can sleep soundly and not be worried about getting a knock. I think it's good for people, correct. Yes. Yeah. So in the beginning, what are some of their like challenges you think someone might have as a new van life? Or what did you guys experience are some of your challenges at first? I mean, because we did the transition from RV Life, we already had a lot of the, the basics down. But yeah, I mean, it, it is the. The not knowing what your levels are, how much water to use, how to conserve on water, um, emptying the black tank, filling up the tanks, those kind of de those kind of things. Uh, and then parking with a van, it's a lot easier learning how to drive and park with a fifth wheel. Let me tell you when the longest thing you ever towed was a hotdog cart. Yeah, it's a big, big difference. But, but the van itself, uh, it was a pretty easy transition, I would say. Yeah, same. Yeah. That's awesome. And you've mentioned water conservation tips is a good one because I know every time I get in a house like this and I start house sitting, I'm like, just using hoards of hot water. And I'm like, I could never do this in a van. And I think that's a hard transition for people, the water thing. So what tips do you guys have for like water conservation in a van? So we have a lot of wipes, every single type of wipe we have cleaning wipes, uh, for the counters and things like that. Uh, baby wipes in case that we run outta water or just to like wash our hands real quick. Um, they have the big wipes. We have the big wipes for shower. Yeah, for showers that, that are like the camping shower. Yeah. Uh, wipes. Like that's, if we really want to extend where we're going, just having them just in case is really good. Let's see. Always like we do all the dishes, like all of the soapy stuff first, all at once and then rain slowly. But as you're rinsing one, it's dripping to everything else to kind of like help with, you know, conserving some water. Um, just turn off the water if, if you don't need it, the whole doing dishes or anything where you just let it run. if you're not actively using or consuming the water, turn it off. That's the best tip we can give, um, for cleaning the dishes first and like the pots, paper towel first to get everything out before you actually do, uh, the dishes. Let's see a good shower head if you have a shower in your van. Yeah. Um, those, uh, what is it? I forgot what it. It's the adjustable, I forget the, the aerated, oh, ox oxygen. Xigen, xox type is good because it, it uses some kind of like oxygen and pressure to make the water feel a little harder. and like more's coming out, but you're conserving on the water. It makes it more like a mist instead of being like a jet. Right. So you use less water that way. Oh, that's interesting. I haven't heard of that yet. And then do you like shut it off and on during the shower as well? Yes. So in the handle it has a a thing to turn it off and on. Yeah. Yeah. Rinse. Lather all the way up and down and then Ritz again. Totally, yep. All these are techniques that people have to get used to when they're doing that transition, I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What about, um, some other questions I get, or is Van Life a lonely experience? What, what is your experience with that then? No. If you want it to be, it depends what you wanna make it. If you wanna be isolated and not talk to anybody, you can definitely do that. The Van Life community has been amazing. Like wherever we go, you automatically have a friend. It's you. We, you have something in common. You just wave at each other. Hey, Yeah. Down the road. It is not like, for us, it hasn't been lonely at all. We've met so many people, uh, via online or in person. as soon as you pull up next to somebody, you've got a van. I, I've got a van. We're friends now. It's automatic. It's automatic deal, uh, and you can definitely, like she said, it's what you make it really cool. And have you guys had the experience where you meet someone like through social media like Instagram and then you meet up with them in person? Have you done that? yes, plenty of times and has been actually a blessing cuz then you get to, uh, exchange experiences and it's not only you put a face like the real person instead of just being someone you're typing to online. Um, and usually in those cases you can exchange, uh, not only knowledge on like. The lifestyle, but places that probably they've been to and you haven't or other, the other way around. Yeah. Hmm. Very true. And how do you guys decide where to go? I know one struggle we face in the van is just where are we gonna go today and what are we gonna explore? Where are we going to park? Like those decisions sometimes become endless. And how do you guys, um, deal with that and handle that? Planning is not our forte. uh, we're more of a do as we say, not as we do cuz we do try to tell people, especially newer couples that are getting into it, try to plan. uh, an itinerary kind of deal, so that, but once you feel comfortable and you know, your rig, we're just like, yeah, we're gonna go over here and squirrel, and then we just kind of veer off and do something else. Yeah. So planning is tough. The, the, the one thing I, I would say is we plan like a, the big stops. So if we're going on a road trip that's like a thousand miles and we want to see two or three national parks, for sure, that's the, the stop. And then from there, we just kind of meander and wing it. We wing it. Everything in between Totally. And do you monitor like the weather or do, are there any other factors that influence where you go? Yes, yes, yes. That's something that has to be, we have made the mistake also to forget to check the weather and it didn't work out for us. Like for example, we went to, um, Arkansas. The national park and it's like, oh, it's on the way. We're just gonna, you know, detour here just because we're gonna go check out this national. but we didn't check the weather. And then in the middle of the night there were, uh, sirens going off. Yeah. And it was tornado warnings. Whoa. And we were like, what do we do? Like we didn't have any idea. And that's something that it was our mistake. We usually do that kind of research, but that time we were just like, oh, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. People from the west coast like me, you know, I would never even think to check for a tornado like Right. Do you know what that is? So we, that's one thing that we do suggest is we have a couple of apps that are like radar apps and uh, weather apps that will notify you. if something like that is going on in your area. Because it is, it's, I mean, you're on wheels. Your home is on wheels. If you get a, a notice like that and you can go, which is what we did. It was like what, one in the morning or something? we, yeah. We had to look up at the last second, like where do we go? Where's the shelter? The nearest shelter. Shelter, yeah. We ended up like, we found the shelter. It was a few blocks away and we didn't get very much sleep that night, but we felt better being there, I guess. Yeah. How interesting. That was there actually a tornado shelter you could go. It was one of those, uh, like a, a school made out of like concrete or something like that. That's a Was it designated? Designated, yeah. In the area. So we just parked in front of it. We didn't have to actually spend the night in there, but we were just, you know, hyper aware, what was going on, just in case we had to go inside. Oh yeah. It's usually a library or a school or something like that. Convention center, something that's a big. uh, structure usually made out of concrete and stuff like that. Ah, that's interesting. I never thought of that. Cool. So what about like cooking and um, dealing with food in the van? Um, was that challenging to cook in such a small space? What was that like for you guys? Not at all, actually. I know that a lot of people don't like cooking inside the vans that we've met a couple of van lifers that are just cook outside. Um, but for us, well we have the vent right on top of the. The stove. So the Maxar fan just pulls everything out. So that's not a problem with like smells or anything like that. And with two burners has been more than enough. Like we don't do crazy meals, I guess. I mean, we've made everything That's plenty. We've made everything from, you know, like steak dinners and mashed potatoes. Like we've, we've used it as a regular kitchen. Mm-hmm. by no means is it a gourmet chef, but neither are we. So I get that. But we, we definitely are able to do and cook whatever we need. Yeah. Two burners has been more than enough. Mm-hmm. so, oh, cool. Yeah, that's great for people that are worried about that, that I, I also think it's pretty easy to cook in the van. We cook both inside and outside of it, so, yeah, no problem. Cool. So what about like, um, what'd you guys do for internet connectivity, which is also a big question that newbies. Yeah, that's usually a big one. We, we carry every, every carrier, all three of the major carriers, So we use the phones as hotspots. I have T-Mobile, he has at and t and then on top of that we have a jet pack that is, uh, Verizon. So that way we're cover at least in some way. And, and we have a, uh, a wifi booster. Yeah. So we usually, that helps a lot. We're usually pretty good. I mean, we've been in the middle of nowhere working and since we are digital nomads, you kind of know days and projects. Uh, if you have a meeting or something that is very time sensitive, then we err on the side of caution and we will stay closer to a city where we know we'll have signal. Uh, otherwise, usually with one of those three, you can do pretty well in most places. Yep. that's really cool. So you can, and, and they have fast enough speeds for anything you need to do when you have good enough signal. Yes. And then one thing that actually it's, I, I thought that everybody knew, but not most people know, uh, to watch like tv, like Netflix or uh, YouTube, things like that. While we do, we have a cable that we connect from the, uh, phone. From the phone. So that way you're using the internet as if it was in your phone instead of using it as a hotspot cut. Your hotspot is limited. Mm-hmm. I did not know that. Both are usually limited, but you usually. it's a separate bank of, uh, data. Data, so you'll get a certain amount for your wifi and then a certain amount for your phone. Your phone usually has way more. than your wifi does, but we learn the hard way that you will run out of wifi when you watch a few Netflix movies and, and or anything of that nature. Yeah. Hotspot or hotspot, yeah. Oh, I see what you guys are saying. So your, your plan gives you a certain number of gigs to use as a hotspot. Um, correct. So this cable allows you to use it as your phone's data. Correct. Wow, that's a great tip. What's that cable called? Do you remember? it's just a, it's just a regular, uh, U S B C connection cable. Uh, and it's, you'll see an adapter. It's, it has the plug that goes into the bottom of your phone as if you were gonna charge it, and then it, it has like a box on it. It has like an H D M I input and another cable. Just connect it very easy and it mirrors your, your screen, your, basically, your screen is mirrored onto the TV and you're running it that way. Oh, cool. It has saved us a lot of, a lot of data. A lot of data. Ah, that's a really interesting idea, because I've had that concern about getting unlimited data on my phone, but they're like 40 gigs of hotspot, and I'm like, that's not enough Yeah, no, it, it makes a big difference always. Always talk to call and confirm what your, uh, data plan and, and overall plan is. But for the most part, what we've seen with the three carriers is that yeah, you get more data just using your phone because you can do your Facebook, Instagram, or whatever it may be, but you can do Netflix and things of that nature as well. And it, it's been. It's been very helpful. Very cool. And then, um, then another question that leads into that is, working on the road, what do you guys do for a living to support a van life kinda lifestyle? I run, uh, we do a, we wear a few different hats. I, my biggest job is I run a mental health corporation virtually, uh, back in Puerto Rico. I was doing it before Maria. and Maria actually forced us to work virtually. We were able to get off the island, uh, for a little while and I was able to do patchwork running the company that way. Light bulb went off and I said, you know what? I can do this, uh, long term. So I was able to do that. Cool. And they're doing it for now, like six years since pre pandemic. I was doing it before. It was cool. Totally. Um, as of now I am, uh, doing arm's journey in marketing campaigns with different brands. But before that I was doing events, events management, but with the pandemic, I had to adapt cuz obviously there was no events to be done during the pandemic. So, Very cool. I love hearing all the different ways people make a living on the road. Cause that's people's huge concern. Like, people write me every day saying like, how do you do it? You know? And so everyone has such a different story and that there are options out there for people. So it's good for them to know that. I think Yeah. Yes. Cool. Well, yeah. Are there, are there any other tips that we missed? I think we covered a lot of the, the big bases there. Um, anything else you can think of that questions you guys get in your Instagram or anything? I would say one of the things we get asked a lot is how does it feel to travel with pets? We have two dogs that we take with us. Mm-hmm. and they love it. Um, yeah, you can make. The space, what you want. I mean, obviously you're limited, but you can, you'll figure out ways you will get crafty with space. And uh, if you didn't, if you've never played Tetris, I know what it's, you'll learn quickly how to move things and, but yeah. But you can, uh, travel with pets and it's very easy. We, we love having them with us and they love going with us, and they have their own little section that. Multipurpose areas as well. I said, when you start out, don't try to bring everything with you. You, most people overthink it. They, oh my God, I'm gonna need this, I'm gonna need that, I'm gonna need this. And most of the time you don't. Um, I would say just bring what you actually need and you can always buy things along the way. If you actually do need it at some point. You don't have to carry something. A year or seven months and just use it once. You can just buy it at that time if you need it. Yeah. A along those roads, you, you reminded me, we have a couple of rules, uh, the three month rule where if you haven't really used something in about three months, and sometimes we do even less time. It's this we, this is not needed. We can get rid of it. And then we also have the plus one minus one rule. So if you're bringing something into the van and you guys are limited on space, it's almost always you bring something in and you gotta let something go. And so that kind of goes back to the three month rule where you're like, okay, we think, we'll, we're gonna use this and we haven't used this in a long time. This can. and for those that do it as a couple, um, also people get really worried about how you're gonna live in such a small space. But at least for US, band life is more about being outside. So we spend a lot of time outside and not all the time inside of the van. So it's not hard. It's not that hard. And you could still do your own thing. Mm-hmm. go on a, go on a hike. Somebody can sit inside the van while you're working, while the other person sits outside as simple as sitting. Sometimes she'll sit in the front or vice versa, and I'll sit in the back, put some headphones on, and you, you'll. Be surprised how you can feel your own li uh, little space, space and, and and time to yourself. Mm-hmm. that's a really good tip too. And that happens to us all the time cuz someone will go, my tom will go out windsurfing and I'll, I'll sit and be alone in the van for a couple hours. A few hours. And it's nice cause you have all that time together, but you also know to, you know, separate and do your own thing. I think that's vital and not so hard. Yeah, exactly. So unless it's, unless it's raining, then there's nothing you can do. Look in the bed. That's true. We have. That's a good Netflix night, Very true. Well, these are all such amazing tips for beginners. I love talking about this with you guys. Um, yeah. Where can people find you to online and follow your journey and see photos of your, your rig? You have such a cool rig, so where, where could people go? You can find us at R'S Journey. So that's gonna be the same handle across all social. and we've been working on getting the website going, so that's gonna be up soon. Yeah, we're on Instagram is the big one, and that's always the most up to date. Uh, we put do stuff way behind on our YouTube, but we do have a YouTube uh, we have the TikTok and Pinterest and stuff, so Facebook, so we're on most of them, but Instagram is definitely our, our biggest and most up to. Cool. And where's your next trip going to take you? Do you know yet? that goes back to the planning thing. We know we're going probably north and west, but we don't We haven't picked the location yet. Yeah, totally. I get that. We're like that too. We plan everything kind of the day of, so I totally relate to that. So, great. Well thank you guys so much for coming on and giving us your tips. So many good points. So thank you. Thank you for having us.